Group Gear in New Expansion vs EoK

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Wizlard, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. segap Augur

    Typically the raid and group visibles are opposites for having +bs. You're likely to get more value out of the heroics and +attack on the raid gear than the +bs on the group gear. Besides, maxing +bs isn't difficult now that the relife aug has a big chunk. Get that and a couple Void type 3s and you're set.
  2. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    No :)
    Janakin, Tucoh, Wizlard and 1 other person like this.
  3. fransisco Augur

    If that is correct, I think the group ac needs to change a little.
    Both the % and the absolute gap between group and raid ac grows.
    EoK had a huge correction because the gap was just stupidly large. They should use this opportunity to maintain a standard difference between group vs raid gear instead of letting them start to grow wildly different again
  4. Sissruukk Augur

    behwierfest into englisc?
  5. Cleaver Augur

    When you raid 6 hrs a week every raider is casual.
  6. Sancus Augur

    788 / 607 = 1.298; 932 / 718 = 1.298

    It's the exact same ratio as EoK group to raid. The absolute gap is growly slightly as it does every expansion (which makes sense); the ratio is not increasing at all.
    Wizlard likes this.
  7. gotwar Augur

    First off, nailed it! (?)

    Second, assuming that's the correct format, love the multiple tiers of group/raid gear. Gives the sense of gear progression within the expansion for both group and raid players, something I enjoy and would argue is a good thing.

    Third, I think those numbers are solid. Group oriented players still get to be pretty uber (718 AC is a lot) while raid oriented players still feel like the time spent keying/flagging/showing up at a scheduled time is (probably) worth it. The assumed numbers also allow EOK raid gear to retain value for smaller guilds to go back and raid that expansion for upgrades. Something that's been frustrating for me, as someone who leads a (much) smaller guild on Test, is motivating people to raid TBM when we don't have the numbers for EOK. Gear is a huge motivating factor for a lot of players, and it's difficult to get people to log in and raid when they know Deathseekers is only slightly better (or for some, even worse) than Selrachs.

    I think TBM really threw gear progression off the rails, and something had to be done to correct this, resulting in the god-tier group gear we received in EOK. These values imply a return to the traditional format we saw pre-TBM/EOK while still allowing group oriented folks to feel their gear progression is meaningful and has an impact on their play.

    Of course, we'll have to wait and see how this all pans out when beta comes! How 'bout dem caster belts?!
    Wizlard and Sancus like this.
  8. Wizlard Elder

    Thanks for that. All I needed to know ;)
  9. fransisco Augur

    woops, I used the ros group1 value
  10. Phrovo1 Augur

    or 2 group tiers, 2 cultural tiers, and a raid tier...
  11. Wizlard Elder

    I could be wrong, but I believe they said no cultural.
  12. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Then i guess all of us who are farming EoK by now are "casual" then.
    But by that definition, the guild on our server that has not yet beaten EoK - isn't.
    Nor are - most likely anyways - most of the guilds that are listed on the progression site but haven't finished EoK by now.
    And "being casual" and "work hard" is not a contradiction as you seem to indicate.

    As i said:
    Whether one has to "work hard" or, as you suggest, "everything is easy" solely depends on your guild's resources.
    You'd do well to remember that and at least try to put yourself into the shoes of someone in a "lesser" guild of your server!
  13. Jumbur Augur

  14. Cleaver Augur

    The raids are easy if you can manage to show up with 54 people who want to pay attention to the raid instead of whatever is on tv that night. But its a video game be real this is not hard work even if the raids were difficult its not work. If you feel the game has become work I would suggest you look at why you're playing because its supposed to be fun.
  15. Wizlard Elder

    People are getting way too caught up on the use of "hard work". It's a figure of speech, obviously we aren't digging ditches. A lot of time and effort was put into the raid gear would have been better choice of words to avoid the nitpicking online gamers are famous for.

    I've personally spent hundreds of hours raiding this content. 52 weeks x 5+ hours = 250+ hours. This isn't even counting the progression through raids where we wiped on the Kor'Zok for weeks (5+ days a week), or beta, or the fact that 54 people did this work. I could equip a character in a full set of group gear in a couple days with only my effort.

    It looks like Daybreak agrees, and I'm glad they do. Thanks to Daybreak for honoring the time we invested!
  16. Ratbo Peep Augur

    I think that's impossible for them to do. In my experience.
    On this thread: Raid gear used to trump group gear for at least the next expansion, and still mostly rock (save foci deterioration) for the one after that. Always worked that way until this EOK "correction".
  17. svann Augur

    I honestly dont care. When the expac hits I will do group content and if group gear is an upgrade then I will use it. Then upgrade again when I get to raid content. Its no big deal.
  18. Cleaver Augur

    Not that it matters but I actually think group gear should be closer to last expansions raid gear. Especially with a level increase the last tier of group gear should be what is needed to raid that expansions easiest raids.

    Now without a level increase im not sure. Each expansion without a level increase the raids should be tiered difficulty wise, TDS would be Tier 1 for 105, TBM Tier 2, EOK Tier 3. A level increase should reset this and group gear should be the entry level gear needed to complete the tier 1 raids. Without a level increase group gear should help you get ready for EOK raids thats about it.
  19. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    It isn't.
    Not for you, not for any raider in a so-called "top" guild per server.
    But that is beside the point i am trying to make here.

    But in fact it IS a big deal after all, just not THAT an obvious one:

    The issue is not with US who raid the top end.
    The issue is for the people in the "lower" guilds (you know.. those that apps for US tend to come from).
    THEY can often not raid current expansion at all or only partially - not enough to occupy them for long.
    THEY needed the "power-ups" from new epxansions to beat past content, traditionally.
    And nothing wrong with that, it gave them something "worthwhile to THEM" to raid.
    EoK did away with that.
    And i sincerely hope any new expansion doesn't do the same.
    Rather, i hope that new expansions work with LESS absolute and relative) distance to prior expansion's gear than they used to.

    Because this would then allow the "tuning" to be less of a hassle, we could perhaps see some "moderate" increases in DB rather than multiplying increases in DI that result in mobs hitting like trucks, compared to former expansions, as the only "challenge" in the new expansion.
    And the more-than-welcome side-effect (for those "lesser guilds" and groupers, mind you, that make up a very significant portion of our overall population) would be that they have a wider range of viable targets.
    Supported even by guilds/alliances offering open raids to "old" content.

    We cannot offer open raids to current content really, and open raids are one way to attract our future replacement-apps...
    Think about it!
  20. svann Augur

    How do you figure that? The thread is about how some people complained that eok group gear was superior to TBM raid gear.
    Thats good for lower guilds not bad. That mini-bump will help them beat TBM raids finally.

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