GMM risk vs reward out of whack? mobs need tuning up

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Gingadin, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. Stephen51 Augur

    For me, the zone, and especially the mission in question, is supposed to be a celebration of the EQ community of 20 years of EQ. Make it tougher, and you will exclude a portion of the community which for whatever reason, justified or unreasonable, would be excluded.

    My opinion would be, leave it be, and let everybody (and even then there will still be a small minority who cant beat this) have their fun.

    In recent years there has been more of a move in group missions towards a raid feel (and definitely raid punishments for going off script) but without the raid rewards. At the end of the day, it is one mission in one zone, and the gear obtained, is not going to overpower anyone in pre-TBL visible armour. After an expansion (or two) the mission wont matter any more.
  2. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I agree and I wish they would keep raid type mechanics in group tasks to a minimum.
  3. Lianeb Augur

    What exactly is a raid type mechanic?

    I would think anything in game can be called a raid type mechanic. Even if missions involved zoning in and opening a chest, those are both raid type mechanics.
  4. Mazame Augur

    I 100% disagree. I liked when the group mission were tone down version of the raid like in raid of fear.
    This help people learn the event and mechanics in a group setting before doing it as a raid. The more people are able to do it the better the raids go. Their nothing more frustrating to me then going into a raid and no one has a clue what to do or how to do it. For high end guild it great because you get people that understand what to watch for and adapt. But on open raids and middle level guilds it like pulling hair out. having people learn mechanics in a group and then on raid being able to say ok were doing this like X group mission is very useful imo.
  5. feeltheburn Augur

    I cannot believe this thread is still going. smh
  6. Stephen51 Augur

    You are absolutely right, so I'll elaborate to what I think it means.

    Traditionally in group missions, there were steps to complete. They could have been as simple as collect x amount of drops, or kill x amount of mobs. It is failable, if you cannot defeat the mobs, for instance, but not irrevocably so, you can try to kill the mob again or get someone else in to the task to complete that step.

    Traditionally in raids, if you do not complete a step within script parameters, usually time, the task fails, sometimes with dire consequence (i.e. mass death).
    There are some instances of raids that allow you to re-group and med, but they were always rare and now virtually non-existent, as they detract from the challenge.

    In group tasks since at least TBM it has been possible to get all the way to the last stage of a group mission and irrevocably fail the task, due to the mechanics, that I think are similar to how raids have been for sometime. Cactus, SF and even Gorowyn are great examples of this.

    There is an argument to say that this is just an evolution of challenge for the group game but I would say its because people moan about rushing through the expansion too quickly because content is too easy.
    There are always such people, but I think that there needs to be more balance of replayability of missions. I don't think that putting tough missions in is bad, I just don't think they should be early in an expansion and that the win is the largest gain. Put tough missions in at the end and with a suitable reward.
  7. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    But I don't play group content as practice for raiding. Don't think I am alone there.
    Graves and Aurastrider like this.
  8. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    You are right if you want to be silly you could describe almost anything as a raid type mechanic. I guess you could tell me logging in was a raid mechanic because you have to log in to raid.

    But simply look at Mazame's response. Apparently they have no trouble figuring out the mechanics I speak of. Over the history of EQ the group game has usually been lighter on scripted events and conditions for success over and above being able to fight the mobs. It's my opinion/feeling is the group game is becoming more and more a mirror of the raid game. I guess maybe it's easier to duplicate raids as group content or vice versa

    But the short answer is I believe group content should generally be more straight forward and use less emotes etc. Leave the more complicated stuff to the end stuff in expansions not the early missions/content.
  9. Whulfgar Augur

    At first I was in total agreement..

    Risk vs Reward for GMM was / is insanity..

    But now .. I'm like who cares ?

    If this is how they want the game to go grp content. Have at it.. an just have fun.
    Lheo likes this.
  10. Yendar Augur

    Will be nice AA exp next few xpacs until 120 becomes level cap probably.
  11. Natal Augur

    I don't think anyone cares if it is easy, it is an HA, it should be. The problem is the quality of gear it drops, it is simply too good considering how trivial the HA is.
  12. Lheo Augur

    Who CARES? It a freaken game! Nobody knows how hard is the next expansion pack...
  13. Dewey Augur

    It's still just group gear. With that being said if what you say is true then the fix is to adjust the stats on the gear.

    I do not desire to see the stats on the gear to be adjusted as people have already deleted other gear.
  14. Lheo Augur

    Nobody cares
  15. Aurastrider Augur

    Maybe the group geared players should start advocating for every easy raid to have its gear nerfed, currency be removed so it cant be farmed or the event be made so difficult that it kills off all but the best of the best this game has to offer. Or maybe people should just play the darn game and stop trying to make others walk up hill both ways in 10 feet of snow just because they had to. You have yet to provide a valid reason as to how any of this would benefit the game. All you do is explain how your raid geared warrior with two dedicated healers and a backup healer on top of them has made the content trivial all for gear that you have basically zero use for. How is a nerf at this point going to benefit the game exactly?

    You either make struggling players more weak and continue to struggle or you make the content to difficult for them to progress through either way its discouraging for players that don't have BIS gear and what ever other things are holding them back. These are the kinds of things that runs players off not keep them around. If your goal is less players than keep pushing this agenda. Its no different than the decline of raid guilds over the years. You take away the incentive to do content or make it to difficult and you have effectively discouraged your players and taken the game from fun to a full time job. If you disagree just look at how many raid guilds have beaten the last 3-4 expansions without the content being nerfed first just to give players a fighting chance.
  16. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    We will find out later today how the devs feel about all this.

    Impatiently waiting for patch notes!
  17. smash Augur

    You said this a million times, but do I care, actually no.

    I see GMM as a way to make up for the TBL/ROS difficulty, which were too hard, and they created too big a gap between top elites and casuall people.
    It also attracts a lot of people, who left the game because of those 2 expansions mentioned being too hard.

    If you think GMM too easy, then do not go there, or are your real ire is that casualls likely to get same type of items you got ?

    Also, GMM does not contain visible, so people still have to go there, and GMM items will give people a chance to kill.
  18. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    They will never get it. They claim they just want challenging content. Well they can just go play TBL and leave GMM alone but that isn't enough. The reason is some players need to feel they are getting stuff other players can't get. If it was only about the challenge they would just go do the challenging content. But they want no easier content at all.

    Now don't get me wrong the way they get satisfaction out of the game is no better or worse then how I do or anyone else. But I don't think its a healthy attitude for a game like Everquest that has a limited player base that is very unlikely to expand very much if at all.

    If it was just a matter of providing some hard core content each expansion to challenge those who say they want a challenge it would be easy. Have all missions and solo tasks have a challenging and regular version. The challenging version earns extra achievements. Thing is it isn't just about being challenged a lot of the time (I am sure for some it IS just that) but it is about having content be exclusionary. I would like to see the group game be fun for as many as possible and not as exclusionary. Blocking of content right from the beginning doesn't make sense to me.

    I think exclusionary content is more suited to the raiding game even though it has been toned down there too over the years. Raid are no longer open zone competitions about blocking the progression of other guilds etc.
  19. Natal Augur

    The fact that we are having this discussion means that people obviously do care.

    The fact that you posted the same thing twice means that you care as well.
  20. Natal Augur

    It is not about me. That is the difference between my position and yours.

    I care because it is bad for the expansion overall, because it eliminates long term goals over the course of an expansion. If everyone largely get their gear objectives done in a few weeks, then what reason do they have to continue logging in? Once the incentive is gone, people will lose interest in playing and that is not in the best interests of the game. Ideally you want gear to trickle in over the course of the year for the average player, so they get a sense of accomplishment with each upgrade while providing motivation to play. If they get fitted out with end game gear running two trivial HAs over the course of 1-2 weeks, then they are done. What reason do they have to continue to play?

    This is true anytime end game items come in through trivial content. It has been true in the past and it is true now. Doing stuff like this is poor design, having content that lasts a few weeks instead of a full year is going to result in player attrition.