The goal of finding out whether it's doable solo/molo is because of the argument that a group is not going to invite a player tank who isn't able to tank the content they're fighting in. It's a chicken and egg problem - how is a tank going to tank the content other people are doing when they aren't able to get groups to get the gear they need to tank that content in the first place? Now you're going to ask - that's fine but why the restriction on using the bazaar? The answer is what I said in the beginning - because there's no guarantee that you're going to be able to find the gear you need at each level from the bazaar at an affordable price. Being at the mercy of people farming old content for cheap tradeables is not a stable way to reach current content. Practically speaking, it's a supplement that hastens your progress rather than enables it. I brought up this question because, personally, I think the lack of a viable progression route for group tanks that does not involve being twinked is a problem. Today's EQ does not feature grouping at lower levels, so people who want to make it through to current content need to be able to solo/molo. This has led to an over saturation of classes ie rangers, mages, beastlords, necros, etc. who are able to solo/molo, and a lack of classes ie clerics, tanks, melees, etc. who are not. Of these, tanks are said to have the biggest issue because of their higher gear requirements. I was going to start a challenge thread about taking a tank from 1-92 solo/molo without using the bazaar and ending up with enough gear to farm weak cons in Shard's Landing for random drop RoF gear, but thought better of it because I didn't have enough time to do it myself. Still, I do think that's the correct metric because at 92+ the gear is a lot easier to get due to the huge supply of RoF T1 tradeables at an affordable price. Thus, I wanted to know whether others have done it, and that's why I started this thread.
I hope you're not implying that if a tank can kill a mob with a group they should be able to molo it.
Nod, I think that is what he's suggesting. The fact of the matter is Defiant and hotzone augs drop off yard trash and at the lower levels tanks are able to solo gear that will take them in a ragamuffin kinda way up to the next level. Rinse/repeat. Bazaar isn't viable? I farmed a lot of High Quality Lion Pelts with a low level alt, within my account made Prescient Fleeting Quivers, gave 4 to guildmates and sold the rest (for 40-80Kpp each when they were a hot item). Given that my main was selling full sets of Othni for 20Kpp I had no problem rewarding the alt with a set and other droppables. One can set up the same kind of arrangements within a lower level/family/casual guild. PFQ's aren't hot any more? Did you see the prices people were getting for found on the ground collectables not too long ago or TS drops when everyone was doing the shawl? There's (almost) always a way. (Othni is coming back - level 75's rejoice.) And as others have noted they've done your overly restrictive (no bazaar/no grouping) exercise any way. No bazaar/no grouping is without question a tough road. I suggest as an alternative guild/bazaar/grouping - if you make things tough on yourself that's how they will be. Pre-merc I would have said absolutely not. Now (after reading that some have done it with a merc) I'd ask why would you do that to yourself when lower level guilds can give you the social network needed to find groups and old gear and tradeable currency is relatively cheap once you find a way to earn pp. It's mostly when you get within shouting distance of current content (and groups become more available) that stuff gets absurdly expensive.
I interpreted the original post as a player considering a return to EQ or looking to change classes. Instead, it was simply a veiled complaint about how EQ/grouping/loot/tanks is/are broken; only posed in question form.
all the people taht say they have done it, how much of your stuff was rotted to you from higher levels/groups? i mean you're not going to solo/molo in defiant gear t1 UF or T1 HoT in less than the gear they reward, it took more than teh gear they rewardsed at the time they came out, t obe able to drop it then (remember t1 UF was +/- t5 SoD and t3 SoD in crystallos gear dropped off mobs that smacked you for like 7 k at the time, and HoT t1 was <t9 UF and +/- t8 UF both of which also you arent going ot molo in defiant gear. From elegant defiant until t1 RoF random crap drops, there is no gear that doesnt require equal or better gear to kill, unless maybe you're a ranger/rogue/zerker (and really mostly rgr in this example) and just go to 95 with your defiant/headshot and headshot yoruself your abstruse gear and work from there. the thing is though, you dont HAVE to be in equal or better gear to get groups. that happens when you rush. if you're 80 in abstruse then freaking stay 80 and get some aas and augs, if you're 85 in rustic, stay there and get some aas/augs molo and use your grouping time for upgrades. yes, you can tank ina group, stuff that is a tier higher than your gear IF you ahve appropriate augs and aas. melees need gear but not as much to function and get invited, healers need the gear/aas bc a cleric at 90 in say elegatn defiant with 1kaas isnt gonna heal you for half the fight bc theyll be trying to med lol, or be dead from ae's. EQ is made so taht you do have to work your way up or work your way to some plat to use the baz for boosts , or god forbid make some freaking friends and make use of the MMO part of the game. If you want to solo all your gear then go play diablo or fate or something.. point is you dont HAVE to be trying to tank in RoF at lvl 90 you can be in HoT 2 expacs earlier and still be getting upgrades and you can tank taht stuff in a group with gear 1-3 tiers lower, given you have at least basic appropriate aug choices and have put some effort itno aas. It's no harder for a tank than a melee to level and aa without the baz, but you're not intended nor are you required to use the baz and be solo/molo til RoF...there are groups all over the place from 80+ and some servers 65+. Make use of them instead of being the lone wolf stubborn kid just to prove (disprove) a point. OBVIOUSLY you can get to wherey ou need to be without baz or raid gear, most of us have already done it up to whatever poinpt we started raiding, but we didnt do it solo/molo, why are you? again, if you seriously want to work up a tank from scratch yes you can solo/molo up TO grouping level and start grouping, and get groups if you're not a total jerk or moron, you dont have to go all the way to RoF zones, there are tons of people without voa or rof so that expectation is pretty ridiculous at this point of the game wehre there are many many ppl whose max level is 90 and thus tons of groups form 80+ not just 90+. if you watn to prove that you cant jump into chelsith in gear you solo/molod with 1kaas or less and nothing but defiant and hz augs..well..you're not supposed to anyway. the only portion of the game that requires yo uto have gear that doesnt randomly drop off trash your merc can kill by itself, is the portion of the game that is full of groups. if your method of finding groups sucks, then try something else. the hardest part of the game in gear is making that jump from defiant to abstruse, and if you dont wanna do it with a group OR the baz (as in completely on your own, no rots or gifts either..but none of those conditions get met in eq unless you FORCE them to) tahts gonan be a long dark road and will take you greatly outlevelling yourself so your merc can kill the stuff to get you your gear from 10-15 levels earlier, and what's the point. if yo uwant gear aimed at a group, you group, by the time you NEED a group, groups are available. what exactly is the point of all this? guilds work the same way, some never move up a "tier" in guilds (they stay in the start family guild they found bc they like the people, which is fine) some do. nothign says you ever have to solo/molo your way into the top guild on teh server..you join smaller lower guilds until you outgrow them (LOOK! Friends!!) free prepackaged box o' buddies at the click of a button. imagine that. then, you outgrow that guild if you're so against hte social aspect that you wont stay and help them, then you go on to a higher guild, and so on. thats how the game works, it's not diablo or fate that suddnely drops you at RoF when you hit 90 and magically suddenly have to start grouping/raiding, its kinda the point of the game from the start only they removed the need to group during the levels taht there are few groups to get. to refuse to group later on and then complain that yo ucant get group stuff..well thats pretty asinine
Zero; when I started playing EQ someone gave me an item (one) back in early 2000 when I was running around looking for my corpse in West Karana. Since then I have never taken anything for free, and I have never looted a single item on my paladin for which I was not at least a part of the kill. This extended to the many years where I raided on my real pally and I would not bid for anything on a raid unless I was part of the kill (I almost never bid on anything anyways, but that's a whole other story). As that relates to my mention of the clone pally I created on Vox, it was the same story; I never looted anything I didn't kill myself. If you have the patience, the skill (or willingness to work until you have the skill), every "group" mob was soloable (and SoD+ moloable) with a group geared pally until UF came out - and then only a select few were not due to their mechanics. Then VoA came out and RoF to follow, and the whole game changed - mobs have ludicrous amounts of hp and do way more spell damage then they used to. There are plenty of SoD, UF, HoT mobs (all tiers) knights can kill solo/molo with gear less than they provide - which is NOT defiant for the most part (cultural, visibles from the prior expansion, revamp zone armors, etc. . . . don't rely solely on defiant). An argument could also be made for some Argath mobs, but their gear is weaker than the previous expansion, so it's not completely accurate. You also have to put in the time to get clickies, procs, etc. (one of the first things my clone pally did was get an Anklesmasher and a Willsapper just as soon as he was level 55 . . . well, 60 in the case of the latter, it was a long camp as most folks are aware).
I don't know why you thought I was when I said, in the same post, that grouping doesn't happen at lower levels in today's EQ. The question is directed towards getting to the level where grouping happens, and with the gear and AA necessary to tank the content there. I also said in the very first post that, had grouping / boxing been an option all of this is moot, because we already know it's easy to three box your way to 100 and full RoF gear. Not using the bazaar / guild handouts is so that we get to look at what the game supports with its own mechanics and not what the social groups around you support. Saying there's cheap gear in the bazaar / free gear in the guild bank is equivalent to saying you have a high level friend who feeds you twink gear. In that case why even ask the question? I'm looking to understand what exactly is faced by a new tank in today's EQ. I don't face that problem myself, but I've heard it mentioned again and again on these forums for why there are no group tanks at the higher levels. Here's your opportunity to educate me on why that is.
It is all moot: 1. Grouping can happen at the lower levels. but it takes establishing a social network for that to happen. 2. With the creation of mercs one can solo Defiant and hotzone augs sufficient to tank Othni with a group. 3. People have said they did the overly restrictive no grouping/no guild/no bazaar challenge. 4. The challenge is not realistic a. there are groups b. they aren't absolyutely manditory all of the time anyway c. Guilds do exist, rots are announced, and people do help each other - it's in their best interest to do so. d. A player can lay their hands on sufficient pp to (for example) buy a full set of Othni. 5. And no sir it has afaik not been said there are no group tanks at the higher levels, What's been said is: (Kelefane) anyone who does not raid and plays a Warrior is in for a lot of pain and suffering. (Various) All tanks are extremely gear and AA dependent. (Me) however you can cherry pick your way through and get adequate gear to take on the next tier - you don't need the best of the best equipment to advance. Effectively engaging in the social aspects of the game and reaping any benefits IS part of playing the game. People can "teach" but that doesn't guarantee learning will take place. I'm as concerned about the state of the game for single account owners and non-raid Warriors as anyone but I'm not gong to agree about issues that don't exist.
god help me i liked a BB post heh, but he's 100% right. WHY are you even asking about it with 0 groups til 90 and at the same time talkign about what an actual player faces? actual players do not face never having any help from anyone ever or any groups ever til they over 90, thats not how the game works. are groups less common at 70 than at 90? yes, but that doesnt mean one cant actually PLAY THE GAME as it's intended and socialize, make friends, join a guild, and group as the game was meant to be
To think a warrior + merc is going to beat current namers is just silly. Warriors cant dps fast enough to kill the mob before the merc goes OOM. Raid geared warriors might be able to but a guy who is barely current or behind wont stand a chance. I think is extremely unlikely an SK or Pal could either, but I cant be certain since I dont have experience with them.
I can't speak for pallys, but I can tell you a raid geared SK, with a merc can molo some (NOT all, ones without the crazy special abilites) t1/t2 named, and before someone screams nerf SK. It requires burning all your discs, using 2h, chain tapping, A LARGE amount of aa (roughly 7-8k min) lots of raid gear, and a bit of luck, a bad round a missed heal/interrupted tap, any can spoil all your work. Fairly sure a Pally could also, warrior also possibly, but again a near/end game player, not everyone at 100.
Leaving aside the observation that knights can solo/molo more effectively than Warriors, I would have agreed more with the OP if he had offered a different premise and conclusion. Something like: Premise - While tanks can kill yardtrash for Defiant armor and raise pp to purchase better gear at the bazaar, the result of progressing on your own leaves you ill prepared to take on greater than minimal group challenges. Conclusion - In order to acquire the better Mercenaries, Epics, better augs, the Elite Energian Orbs, and better armor needed to take on greater challenge tanks need to develop social networks to give them access to groups and pickup raiding (if they are so inclined). While this is true for every archetype, given the dependence of tanks on gear, it's particularly true of tanks.
any server that allows the /barter comand from any zone. is a simple way to make pp of tradskill items and keeping your bags for the gems. the items to make the visable Armor will cost PP unless you plan to trade still it your self. tanks hunt camps for AC augs- Tanks gear up more then other toons to tank tanks need more AA's each level to tank. http://almarsguides.com/eq/farming/
The other point is that tanks have always been 100% group dependent from first level to 50th. It's not like this is a revelation or anything new / unbalanced about the current game. You can use a tank merc to level you 60's or 70's quite easily, then use natural warrior dps with a heal merc after that if you really wanted to, but to suggest a warrior should be able to solo up to lvl 100, or even level 90 is pretty stupid. I dunno bout you, but when I plvl alts, my box gets solo xp, so the mob kill count is the same as if I had leveled up solo, or double if you're moloing. I usually have around 50-100kpp by the time I'm lvl 80 just from killing in pofire and looting trash. from mobs. 100k is enough to get you rocking full ROF gear and clearly enough to get you in hot / voa t1 gear by the time you hit the necessary level. Hit 70, you can easily grab a suit of elegant defiant (from drops or baz), go grab your miscellaneous augs from rss / dreadspire for even more xp post level 70 molo, by the time you hit 75, you're basically aug'ed out with full defiant gear, and you've still got 50k+ of cash just from selling mob loot to vendors. Hell, if you're an SK, by 70 you can swarm pofire, for AA's, and still rake in a metric ton of xp. Other classes, get moloing on those single / double pulls. The no-baz restriction is ridiculous at best if you're looking at it from the perspective of a returning player, or a player starting from first level. Second, like I said earlier, tanks in general were never meant to solo or molo in any incarnation of the game, we could but it was never efficient or even reasonable to do. It wasn't until SK's starting being able to swarm that it became an efficient means for any tank.. Warriors in particular have always been dependent on having a group. Post 80, you can usually find groups in SoD zones (if nothing else guys trying to get boxes their t5 mercs), 85+ HoT, 90+ VoA, etc. It's not a terribly difficult task or daunting task to do..
Join the general channel, you will see gear rotting for free. Make a few friends. Solo? If I want to solo I play a different game. EQ is about the people. I've leveled up a Paladin and a shaman grouping to 95+. There is absolutely no reason not to make friends or group unless you want to be a hermit. Be willing to help people, and they will be willing to help you. I can tell you for a fact, unless you are an overpowered class, you'll need help, and people that are not over powered will need your help.
I started a tank on Vox when it went live, and have played him rather diligently since. Here's some ideas to help along the way. Don't buy armor until you get Elegant Defiant. Buy cheap, put it in the bank if you like, but that's the only armor I can recommend purchasing in the bazaar. Use whatever defiant that might drop along the way, and remember to turn in you old stuff for Tribute. The prices for the lesser pieces are simply overpriced, and your character will outgrow the earliest stuff very fast. Use it if you loot it, or sell it. Get yourself a tank merc, and keep 2 bags full of bandages. Work your Bind Wound skill, invest in the First Aid AA at level 51. The Healer merc is useful when you want to work on your defensive skills, but the tank merc can survive far better than your character well into the 70s, Use your money for weapons. The Defiant weapons are great for stats, but many older weapons will outperform them. I personally liked Vellium weapons to skill up, with 1 good weapon for when things got rough. The biggest problem I've run across is actually weapon augments. Few, if any, weapon augments drop from mobs. About the only way to get these is to do content where these are available from a vendor. My personal favorite (thru level 80) is at the DoN camp. Collecting Radiant/Ebon crystals (and the faction necessary to buy the augs) will take a considerable amount of time. If I had to do everything over again, I wouldn't bother with weapon augs until I was 70. I wasted a lot of time in low XP zones working on faction. And finding a group to run Radiant/Ebon crystal missions was next to impossible, You need 3 people (including mercs) to start a DoN mission, so you'll need a partner / friends / guild. Beyond level 70 is when things begin to get very difficult for a solo/molo tank. Your tank merc's amazing regen rate can't survive the pounding a lot of mobs put out, and you and your merc aren't exactly setting records for DPS. Fights get longer, and downtime will increase, even against light-blue mobs. A partner will allow 2 mercs (healer and tank), which will keep the XP flowing. Even your Elegant Defiant armor won't really be sufficient to reliably survive a fight at level 75, even with a healer merc. You will almost certainly need to improve your armor, ASAP. Get the best HP/AC augs you can find, and look at purchasing HoT armor from the bazaar long before you consider going to HoT itself. As a tank, you will be gear dependent, and after 70, the content quickly outgrows the armor you can find on your own. If you aspire to reach higher levels, you are going to need the bazaar and a guild simply to keep up with the gear requirements. Trying to solo/molo past this might be possible, but is much more stress-filled than I prefer. Fortunately, leveling from 1 to 70 can still be quite enjoyable if you take your time and enjoy yourself along the way. Hunt in older zones and revel in the nostalgia.
I've just came back to eq after around 10 year break. quit during PoP. As level 65 warrior with some raid gear and 100something AAs I was able to find a guild, find groups and get to 70 and grind 300 AAs in less than a week I am back. The guild gave me access to all defiant armor I've ever wanted. Also since now EQ is sorta free. I've made some boxes and whenever I cannot find groups I can box. In awful PoP gear /100AAs/no augs I was able to tank for a group with druid as only healer(no healer mercs) mobs of my level and above. When I had a chance to upgrade to defiant my hp almost doubled and it has been only getting easier to gear up/level/tank for groups. Also soloing as tank is probably the most boring and time wasting experience ever as tanks are usually quiet low DPS and if we are talking about strictly self geared tanks they dont usually tank all that well unless the time put into farming stuff is at extrim. Besides if you are farming all that stuff and holding off leveling when going gets tough (as you should) why would you not use bazaar? You must spend cash earned while farming on something. For all those who cry about not ever finding groups... have u ever tried to just make one? With mercs available now just adding 1 more live person already brings the head count to 4/6 and that is enough to enjoy the game while socializing.
