Game is headed into wrong direction

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by quakedragon, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. quakedragon Augur

    2 things

    1. Group content being very very difficult.
    Some even saying its like raid content, I saw on forums someone complain about a group content, said "EVEN RAIDERS are having difficulties with it"
    smh, really, group content is so hard raiders have difficulties? smh

    2. Raid content being very very easy
    Several raid guilds finish raids in 3 months too fast (means its too easy)


    Back in traditional EQ, back 10 years ago.
    RAID CONTENT WAS HARD, only few finished
    GROUP CONTENT was ENJOYABLE, you had people kiting 24/7, no need for box because kiting was fun, group content was fun,
    all you needed was a group and once you had a group there was 100% success rate in whatever group content you did

    In group content in traditional EQ, I didn't have to worry about
    Did I X
    Did I Y
    Did I Z
    Did I A
    in group content because they weren't overscaled, made like raids, etc.

    So please go back into the correct direction. How TRADITIONAL EQ was

    So when ToL goes live, and its beaten in 3-4 months, developers, thats a L. Too easy for raiders to do raid content.
    btw, looks like several completed
    2021-03-08, meaning, probably the soonest it could be done. Meaning it was so easy several completed it as fast as it could possibily be finished.

    Meanwhile....
    I saw yesterday GROUP CONTENT being talked about how "raiders struggle with it too"
    shame

    TRADITIONAL EQ, only few very few, raid guilds finish the current expansions raids, very early on AND its usually 1 per server, not 2-4 guilds.

    TRADITIONAL EQ, good luck with raids. (BEST OF THE BEST guild makes it through the first tier quick as possible, not EVERY GUILD)
    PG EQ (today), 15+ guilds 2021-01-07, TOO EASY
    New Expansion, raids BEATEN ASAP, TOO EASY

    Traditional EQ raids, were respected.
    PG EQ (today) raids, are just too EASY

    meanwhile.... GROUP CONTENT is TOO DIFFICULT (Raiders struggle with it too)

    My request.
    TONE DOWN group content
    SmellyFinger likes this.
  2. Schadenfreude Augur



    The devs tried making raids difficult and it wasn't popular with the guilds that couldn't beat every raid inside a couple of weeks - like it or not the expectation now is that if you can get 50 or so warm bodies together you should be able to beat current raid content.
    Ssdar, Wdor and Shindius like this.
  3. quakedragon Augur

    Meanwhile group content,
    if I have a full group......

    I beat it 100%


    ...
    DEAD WRONG

    Raiders even struggle with group content.

    See the MAIN POINT here
    Raid content gets easier and easier
    Group content gets harder and harder

    Average joe is not no raider, they don't want to worry about
    Did I X
    Did I Y
    Did I Z
    Did I A
    in group content

    Gather 6 warm bodies for group content....
    YOU DON'T ALWAYS SUCCEED, unlike in raids.

    Let me repeat,
    raiders even struggle in group content.
  4. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Not all guilds have beaten all the raids yet, although I agree that tier1 raids in CoV were a bit too easy.

    As for group-content, we have 2 types of group-content nowadays: partisan quests, which aren't too difficult and the missions, which are the "endbosses" of the expansion. I don't mind the "endbosses" being difficult tbh, why is it a problem that the group game is not beaten within the first 3 months?

    Personally, I would prefer if they kept the "endboss-missions" at the current difficulty, but added better rewards to the partisans(currency + some tier1 loot). That way people could gear up on the easy group-content, until they could beat the missions and earn tier2 loot.
    Maybe add some (non-scaling)HA's that wasn't endboss focused as an alternative way to earn currency for groups.
    Wdor, Vumad, Shindius and 1 other person like this.
  5. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome


    If raids are scaled so difficult, that guilds don't win them until the end of the cycle, noone gets geared.

    I raided briefly on Ragefire. Our guild "won" Underfoot. The leader took the clay that dropped, no roll, and declared UF was beaten and we were moving to next expansion.

    I haven't raided with them since because I stood zero chance of catching the curve of current gear.


    There needs to be balance so that raid guilds in whatever current meta they are in can beat the content in 90 days +/- with enough time to gear up 54 people for next cycle.
    Wdor likes this.
  6. CatsPaws Devil's Advocate

    This is the same thing your always posting about only you tried to disguise HA's by calling them group content.

    I am sure at your level (90 ish?) you can do most lower level group content.

    Pick content that does not scale like missions in Shards Landing, The Convorteum, (never heard of that one have you?) etc. Go work on your tear or the parrots and puppets.

    And that is why it will never change. If a player cannot handle the level of the group content they want then they can drop back and do it at lower levels.
    Ssdar, Wdor, Shindius and 3 others like this.
  7. quakedragon Augur

    Lets look at some OTHER peoples posts
    Corwyhn Lionheart, Laurana, Syylke_EMarr and 1 other person like this

    What is this? Group content? Too hard?
    Did he X? tank have an audio trigger and use a special skill at a special time
    Did he Y? did someone slow, to reduce damage speed
    Did he Z? did some disempower to reduce damage
    Did he A? did the dps read up on this encounter and position themselves properly to avoid ae/dot
    This is raid content *cough its group content*

    How hard/difficult is group content????
    Thunderbuddy32, Corwyhn Lionheart, Kimosavi and 4 others like this.

    WHOA!!!! Way overtuned! How reliable is this quote?? WHOA 7 people like this, meaning they agree GROUP CONTENT IS WAYYY OVERTUNED

    Not me saying this, someone else saying this and 7+ people agreeing that it is wayy overtuned and PEOPLE IN FULL RAID GEAR HAVING HARD TIME

    Not me saying this.

    How did it get WAYYYY OVERTUNED...

    Raiders saying its TOOO EASY, so they OVERTUNED GROUP CONTENT because its TOOO EASY to raiders..... Group content people??? ZERO say. They have to deal with GROUP CONTENT getting WAYYYY OVERTUNED because raiders want GROUP content MORE MORE DIFFICULT


    Meanwhile,
    Whats this?
    Raiders want raids undertuned?


    So let me this get this straight.

    Group content needs to be higher tuned AKA raidlike
    Raids content needs to be lower tuned AKA beatable 100% with 50 warm bodies


    Traditional EQ,
    Group content beatable 100% with 6 warm bodies
    RAID content, is yeah, TOUGH, because its RAID, its END GAME, its the ultimate, you want to beat it you join the BEST OF THE BEST, not just gather 50 warm bodies and its 100% winrate.

    100% winrate, why yes,
    here is https://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/progress/index.php?expansion=COVOverall

    15+ guilds finished the first raid ASAP finished the last raids March, several guilds did ASAP

    Its not even a competition anymore, its just go straight to raids ASAP with 50 warm bodies and 100% winrate
  8. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    What is this even supposed to mean? If you make raid content that challenges the top guilds there will be a lot more guilds that struggle to get a single win and may not get wins at all and that would be bad for the health of the game.
    Wdor, Winnowyl, Vumad and 2 others like this.
  9. quakedragon Augur

    You missed my main point here

    GROUP CONTENT gets harder
    RAID CONTENT gets easier

    ....

    Did you read my previous post?
    What does SOMEONE ELSE SAY.

    Group content, has missions where.
    Only Zlandicar is possible for non-raiders to do but only if the DPS is the edge over the limit

    How is it fair that RAIDS 100% winrate just need 50 warm bodies
    When GROUP is NOT 100% winrate just need 6 warm bodies

    TRADITIONAL EQ is where raids are VERY VERY NASTY, HARD. Group content is enjoyable. Nameds in group content wont be spawning adds, wont be banishing you into an ambush, etc.
  10. Windance Augur

    [quote="quakedragon, post: 4072493, member: 406567"GROUP CONTENT is TOO DIFFICULT (Raiders struggle with it too)[/quote]

    I tend to disagree with your statement.

    I'm in a guild that is very much struggles with raid content that has any form of DPS checks and our members do not have have an issue doing the group missions.

    It does take work, researching the mechanics, making sure you know what you are supposed to do and having enough gear to make it happen.


    The people who are going to be struggling with group missions are the non raiders who haven't gotten all the gear for the expansion, and may be missing half their AA's, trying to wing the mission with mercs.

    Those folks are going to fail horribly, get discouraged, and fade away.
    Winnowyl likes this.
  11. Windance Augur

    Very much not true.

    We have between mid 40's to low 50's.

    We're able to do T1 and some T2 but fail Crusaders and Defenders due to DPS limits.

    50 warm bodies does not = 100% win
    Winnowyl likes this.
  12. eqgamer Augur

    Part of the problem is that the game is still presented to us as if the same number of people play today that did even 3 years ago (group game). The number of players has changed, the game has too, just not enough in support of dwindling player numbers.
  13. quakedragon Augur


    Can't do it is because they probably undergeared, lacked AA's, didn't do enough research.

    Hmmm.
    Let me think of what it takes to be a raider.
    Gotta meet AA requirements
    Gotta have good gear
    Gotta do research beforehand

    Hmmm.
    So your making group content sound just like raid content.
    Lets look at another saying, NOT FROM ME

    Oh whats this? AE so powerful, have to have the AA/gear like you mentioned otherwise you wipe.
    Ouch, group content is this difficult.
    I need to have gear as a raider, enough AAs where I'm pretty much a raider, I should have researched beforehand that if I don't meet the requirements, I should never tried this group content.

    Wow, so much is needed for group content.
    Traditional EQ, just get 6 warm bodies together and the world is ours, we can do anything BUT raids
  14. Angahran Augur

    1. Raids where if 1 person misses an emote or is a split second slow on doing X wiping the entire raid are NOT fun.
    2. Raids with unavoidable AEs that require full raid gear, max AAs and healers all being at 110% of their game simply to stay alive are NOT fun.
    Winnowyl, Shindius, Yinla and 2 others like this.
  15. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Game went the wrong direction, since PoP. They neglected the casuals, both casual raiders and groupers.
    Pleides, Shindius, Yara_AB and 3 others like this.
  16. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    What exactly does group content being hard have to do with raid content being easy? I made no comment on group content because I have no real opinion on it and generally disagree with your claim that it is to hard.

    I would also disagree that raids need to be as hard as you are remembering them.
    Ssdar and Ozon like this.
  17. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    Don't forget use of glyphs to win!
  18. quakedragon Augur

    1. Why you are right.
    Group content where an AE wipes everyone is not fun either
    2. Why you are right
    Exactly what I said earlier, thats in GROUP CONTENT


    According to this, oops thats why we fail at GROUP CONTENT, not raids, GROUP CONTENT.

    Then you say "max AA, max gear, max thisanthat not fun in raids", sure aint fun in GROUP CONTENT TOO.

    Then this guy says

    Yep, if they want GROUP CONTENT this hard, why even make it GROUP CONTENT?

    You guys keep mentioning raids raids raids.
    Let me remind you the topic is called "game is headed into wrong direction"
    Its not raids raids raids

    Let me repeat this again. People are not understanding it.

    GROUP CONTENT
    GROUP CONTENT
    GROUP CONTENT
    is getting harder and harder

    Raid content (not important)
    is getting easier and easier (me personally, if everyone beats it, its too easy, sure make it beatable, but NOT TOO EASY where several guilds beats it on first day)

    "game is headed into wrong direction"
  19. lagkills Augur

    OHMYGAWD maxx AA? how many kronos will that take while i afk in GL
  20. Joules_Bianchi A certain gnome

    Check ATVI on the market. Many many people left EQ to play and or work there. Basic group content should be moloable except named mobs should require a group or raid geared molo.

    Group content like Underfoot when it went live is partly why so many mainstream players migrated to WoW

    60k AA grinds and the gulf from 85-115 is daunting to new / returning players and a fair amount of existing players are 1) always behind the curve and 2) not likely to buy the newest expansion. The abundance of 3rd party software is a result of the game being too draggy and too time sink for normal humans.

    Everyone we ask says do HAs, which are overtuned.

    85-120 needs a new Serpent's Spine like path that's moloable.
    Stymie, Shindius, Yara_AB and 4 others like this.