Framing the debate - Fade changes.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Benito, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. Benito Augur

    Word of Caution

    I plead with people not to "tear down" other classes and narrowly address the devs focused on their particular class/concern.

    Quash emotions of senseless class rivalry.

    Most people have boxed most classes.

    When we fight "other classes", the devs will just nerf everyone to oblivion and no one wins. Bards are going to end up with a 10 minute recast on Fading Memories (and, woohoo - in exchange, zero mana cost) by the end of it all.

    Maybe this "discussion" (eventual poo flinging) will tempt/force the devs - given the political capital - to go to the extreme. Let's avoid a prisoner's dilemma?

    Stay in control.

    No Scorched Earth!

    Just my 1cp.
  2. Duder Augur

    Its rough. Ngreth had made a statement regarding fade recently. In the end, if every other class gets fades, Beastlord should as well.
    Boze likes this.
  3. Koryu Augur

    Did this need to be its own thread? With a copy-paste of what you already had to say in the actual relevant thread?
    Bigstomp and Smokezz like this.
  4. Belchere Lorekeeper

    IDK, Clerics had a fade, then it got nerfed. Now, all it does is give you a Sanctuary effect - IE you are LAST on aggro list, but still on aggro list, so it is pretty valueless when trying to navigate zone to zone movement (IMHO the only purpose it served was to make up for the fact that clerics have no native fixed invis, so running with pots was always prone to trains to zonelines w/o a fade. Don't really seem to get aggro on raids, even with TU.
  5. Tucoh Augur

  6. HanktheTank Journeyman

  7. Oakenblade Augur

    It’s like the guy that has stupid input/questions during a work meeting. It’s not because what he has to say is relevant. He just wants to feel important/involved.
  8. Dewey Augur

    And here I totally disagree with you.

    Without these threads I wouldn't have even known about the change. I don't ever look at the News and status. The change is horrible and putting it here tells more people about it. Hopefully so that there is more push back.

    Don't get me wrong. I hated it when rogue escape went from 100% to 90%. I bugged it, and petitioned and I hated it. However; this is not the way to fix it.

    As for your comment on the guy with stupid input/questions during a work meeting. Don't have the meeting if you don't want to talk to people. People who don't bring input/questions and interaction to meetings is exactly why you get more meetings. If everything was said during 1 meeting we would have to hold 5 more for other topics.
  9. Oakenblade Augur

    I love the change. My only complaint is that they aren’t nerfing
    the fades more severely
  10. Dewey Augur

    You love the change because it doesn't effect you at all. Add a 20% mana cost to your evac spell and you'd be upset. Remember when evac used to take mana and then they took that away? let's make sure that they put that mana cost on the front side of it. 20% mana or you can't evac...
  11. Oakenblade Augur

    Uh, pretty sure druids are among those getting the longest cool downs for fade. So you should check that “doesn’t affect you at all” comment. As far as your “evac” assertion goes, I’d welcome such a change with open arms as well. You should probably consider making some inquiries before telling me how I feel about things that exist, how I would feel about hypotheticals, and why I feel the way I do about them. Or don’t. Just go ahead and continue enlightening me with what my thoughts are on the matter.
  12. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    If I'm being totally honest...

    From a roleplaying stance, I only see 3 classes that should be able to fade:
    • Rogues being sneaky should have a fade since they're slipping back into the shadows and disappearing completely.
    • Enchanters being able to mess with the minds of other creatures should have a fade since they're essentially removing the memories of themselves from those around them.
    • Bards being a combination of the previous two classes should have a fade. Probably less effective than either of the previous two classes.
    I only see 4 classes that should be able to Feign Death.
    • Necromancers having studied death and other dark arts should be able to make themselves appear as though they're dead.
    • Shadowknights having learned a trick or two from their buddies, Necromancers, should also appear to be dead. Probably not as effectively as the true masters or death (Necromancers).
    • Monks having such great control of their physical state should be able to go completely, breathlessly limp and play dead.
    • Beastlords could have learned enough from their monk buddies to play dead as well. Definitely not as well as real monks though. This one is questionable though.
    Everyone else was just a quality of life improvement.
    Belexes, Kimbella, Tolzol and 5 others like this.
  13. Dewey Augur

    I play a druid, nope never use the fade. Got evac, don't need the fade, never asked for the fade. Doesn't effect my druid at all.

    Raid mobs it doesn't matter because normally they are over the level to have the fade effect work. So the agro doesn't get dropped.

    I am sorry that I assumed that it doesn't effect you. I can't imagine a need to really ever hit that button with harmony and such. Please enlighten me on how many times in the past month you have used your fade.

    As for telling you how you think. I can continue to do that with questions and input during our next meeting.
  14. Pano Augur

    That's not how cleric fade works. Cleric fade only puts you last on rampage but should work on anything 107 and below. Considering I've just faded mobs higher than 107 in Aalishai and the raid Ralaifin, I'd say it also works on mobs over 107.
  15. Zunnoab Augur

    For me it's not even much of a debate. The timer and cost changes are entirely unreasonable and a potential continuation of a regressive trend in ability design steadily chipping away at all the improvements made ~HoT-CotF or so.
  16. Spellfire Augur

    Time was spent on fade changes (twice, in 2015, and now again), time was spent on riposte 'adjustments', faction window, chat tabs and other things but people are going to wait for dot revamp another 6 years 'cause reasons.
    Graves, sauron3030, Mintalie and 3 others like this.
  17. Benito Augur

    I seriously apologize if anyone is offended by this thread. You won't see me posting like this often.

    I'm known for posting about illusions and mounts so I've been "hands off" over the years.

    A look at my recent responses to controversial threads (GMM changes, etc) have been fairly bland.

    This is not about my ego. I don't care - I post anonymously (but not to attack a person, troll, flame, etc).

    However, if this thread pre-empts the debate and helps a few people "hold their fire" then it has accomplished its purpose.

    I am seriously worried that the devs will want to be "fair" (heavy-handed nerf to all classes) because the feedback takes an antagonistic direction. I wouldn't put it pass them.
  18. Riou Augur

    None of the devs who touched those changes work on spells, to do the DoT revamp
  19. ~Mills~ Augur

    Correct but if only they were capable of helping each other out somehow. Like maybe instead of adding a faction window, that while nice wasn't needed after all these years, I spend that time helping aristo on this project thats been back burnered for 3 years. Not to single out that one thing in the literally 400 that have been added or changed when they really didn't need to be since dot revamps started.

    And the debuff cap problem falls under a few peoples roles and could have been addressed creatively by a number or combination of them. They choose to not do it. Even though its AA, spells and items who keep adding to the debuff bloat despite acknowledging a problem years ago.
  20. yepmetoo Augur

    Let's be real. All the devs should be competent in the basics, or they have bigger problems.

    Not sure how hard the necro thing really is. Put shared timers on spell lines. Look at max modification of dots from base value. Increase base value. The idea that its so complex or difficult is simply sophomoric. They simple don't want to do it.
    Kleitus_Xegony likes this.

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