Forum rules for 3rd party software discussion?

Accendo is probably locking threads because it already runs afoul of current rules: derailing, trolling, duplicate posting, and cross posting.

In regards to the community, the software debate is healthy up to a point. It is great if everyone had the self-control to make a cogent statement and move on. Instead, the debate is now defined by uncivil loudness and volume.

Rules of order* can force more focused and civil debate in the same way each citizen is accorded 3-minute speaking time before a city council meeting.

*Rules of order does not discriminate against substance but sets a fair format for debate.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...rd-party-programs-and-eq.281846/#post-4117375

Post 2. You expressed a point. You created this thread. It's duplicate / cross posting. I know you think it is different but it is not.

I am spinning off the discussion so it does not derail the thread linked (on a different subject). Note how my responses are few and tempered to begin with. If I don't spin off, I will be accused of derailing and that specific thread could be locked.

It is ethical - even encouraged - to spin off in this instance. The discussion of a separate subject (rules of order) is self-contained to its own thread.

Maybe its just time to BAN the cheaters, not suspend, so we don't not have to listen to their crying on the forums. I mean come on, these with out us "cheaters" your only hurting your profits and the overall game posts are getting old.

From what I've heard through the grapevine a nonzero number of accounts were banned.

I am not defending anything. I am just tired of seeing all the whiners on both sides of this issue.
Mostly a bunch of man-child whiners who cannot just play the game without whining about what the other guy does.. You blow this all way out of proportion. I am curious as to what people like you think is going to happen if EQ got rid of every single botter in the game? Nothing for you will change, not a single thing except maybe EQ goes slowly down the tubes. This is the only end result I foresee.

You are not going to get more groups, better baz prices, or any of the things you seem to think will happen. You will just have a ghost town with less players overall and less revenue for EQ.
Just FYI I am not a "new account" I have played since 2000. I just rarely if ever post to these forums but the constant whining and all the imaginary things the anti bot people imagine will go good for them if EQ banned all the botters is HYSTERICAL. EQ is already beginning to jump the shark with this pitiful excuse of an expac they just released.

I agree with the OP to the fact This forum would certainly benefit greatly by a more active moderation when threads become uncivil and toxic for the community.
But this is up to DP to intervene.
But They have been been rather passive lately.
Currently their new doctrine about automation is stricter.
On the other hand many people have been using tools for about 20 years without any reaction.
So this sudden change is surprising many old players.
That said it seems nobody has been banned for using third party lately.
It looks to be more a forum problem than an actual in game one.
I don’t foresee any short term impact on DP revenue.
If you maintains 12 subscription, you probably pay yearly, or you already bought kronos.
But i dont see why people will keep maintaining those subscriptions if they get repeatedly suspended.

Some do quit after a suspend or two. But I suspect those that choose to remain do so because 1) they love the game and 2) perhaps more importantly, they love the community they are in. Of course, this is excluding those that are in it for RMT.

If people get suspended or banned, they should stop throwing a tantrum on the forums. (A few are cool-headed and simply want to express concern but most are pushing an agenda to change the rules).

Until then, because players lack the self-control to limit their remarks, we could use rules of order. Whether that means each player is limited to a few posts on the subject is for Darkpaw staff to decide.

'New Members' should be subject to heightened scrutiny. We have no idea whether this is just 1-2 people cross-posting the same argument to provoke (vocal minority creating the illusion of "mass protest") or if these 'New Members' are staff/employees for third parties (cheat software developers or another gaming studio). The use of new accounts can be a tactic to evade forum discipline or accountability. Should 'New Members' have posting rights? Sure, but after a review and the selection of a primary account.

People who truly "love the game and community" will follow the rules.

Did you ever stop to think that people who have had their accounts suspended also have their forum access suspended and need to create a new account in order to access the forums? You have been beating the "new member" dead horse across 3 or 4 different forum threads and it is a completely irrelevant argument.

The fact that 'New Member' accounts could be the same 1-2 people (obviously, botters have multiple boxes) to create the illusion of "mass protest" remains a distinct possibility. At the very least, they ask themselves "what harm does it do to use multiple accounts?" because they are waging total war on the forums and they have "nothing to lose."

Even if there are narrow causes, the act of evading the suspension by creating a new account is in and of itself a violation of the spirit of rules of order: i.e. you must wait until after your 7-day suspension to post with your primary account. The fact that posting privileges are also taken away shows that Darkpaw probably expects a cooling off period (avoid emotional posting).

Perhaps, Darkpaw should enact a permanent forum ban for individuals who also evade the forum suspension.

Those new member could be actual people with valid concerns.
Just saying the obvious.

It could go either way.

You could have people who believe they are waging total war on the forums. Using multiple accounts is a strategy that can pay off (illusion of mass protest).

If it is true that forum privileges are suspended during an in-game suspension, then Daybreak expects you to ride out your discipline before you can post again. In other words, they are making a conscious effort to evade a forum suspension which at least violates the spirit of the rules.

To be sure, Darkpaw has been lenient about software posts under recent moderators. I tend to agree with this position that some people may have valid concerns and should have the ability to responsibly vent.

However, there is a cost to the degradation to the community (multiple 10-page threads with acrimony). We may soon be entering "broken windows" territory. At some point I think it will be in the studio's best interest to regulate chatter here with rules of order (e.g. post limits on the subject). In essence, software discussions should go slow-mo mode.

We already have sterile chat on guild forums, raid chat, and voice chat. People know how to follow speaking rules.

Tell that to politicians who love their country, athletes who love their game, stock brokers who love their job. If there's a way to get a leg up people will take it. It's a nice sentiment, but it's just not true that these two go hand in hand always.

I agree with your realism and cynicism.

I just found it ironic that the poster quoted would equate "love for the game and community" with cheating.

If you don't feed the bridge troll he stops coming back

If players are not allowed to post during an in-game suspension, are they allowed to post with new accounts?

We also need counters to misinformation and disinformation in the form of fact checks.

Currently, some players are blatantly peddling false and dangerous information on software that can get unknowing players suspended or banned.