Forethought

But you said it yourself, we're going with what I said because I said it and you don't remember it. Consensus has been achieved!

Im sorry you weren't here for the 15 other starting in classic servers, but the majority of us are sick to death of starting in classic.

You're unmistakably in the minority thinking starting in luclin for a change is a "giant mistake".

I get its the 20th Anni, but fact is there aren't a ton of people like you who have missed all the other servers, but still could possibly play EQ again, or for the first time.

Mangler will probably get its exp upped, and both sides will hopefully have a home, though. I hope.

I think 60 days is a good compromise, the key though is that the fast XP allows casuals to max out on level and AA fast, and actually spend their time raiding. I mean, yes, they have to drop the "take it slow" attitude, but really, once you're leveled up, most future expansions only add 5 levels, some don't add levels, so if people will actually show up and raid, they can get stuff done. Of course, they need to put some effort in while there, it won't work too well to show up and spend half the raid watching TV or alt tabbing to read the forums.

I've been calling for open trade loot for years, and I recall that when I started calling for it, I was almost alone. Things have changed, I'm surprised to see a lot of calls for it now.

It's very easy to make claims about vocal minorities because the reality is that the chances of full scale polls being performed to prove it one way or the other are next to zero. For my part, I call for such a poll to be done, and settle it one way or the other. And properly, i.e. don't ask poll questions that force you to either vote for open loot or a certain unlock speed (and Daybreak improperly polled like that once before). And let's remember a couple of things:

1. FV has generally been the single most populated server
2. Pantheon has an attitude of righting some of the wrongs of EQ development history. One of the things they're doing is not adopting no trade tags for the vast majority of loot. Edit: and many people opposed EQ going in the direction of no trade loot. Back in those days, forum advocacy wasn't as prevalent as it is now or it would have had even more opposition .
3. Let's not forget that Classic and Kunark have very significant amounts of tradeable loot, and those expansions are the most played for every new TLP start. Every new TLP has essentially been a mostly open trade server for the first 2 expansions. It's funny that people want to rehash from Classic every time and engage in that trade but then claim to oppose open trade for expansions beyond that.
4. I think there's actually a vocal minority that oppose open trade on a philosophical level, who want everyone to personally loot every item and don't believe in trading in MMORPGs

Ah, but you see, he's not the vocal minority.
He's the "SilentMajority"

You mean apart from the fact that there are 15 other live servers?

Um what? Can you translate this post for me?

I don't remember the forums being like that cause what you said is BS.

But lol good job on this reply. I give you an A+ for effort.

Gah, you're right. QED

See, I have a great memory and I'm an A student. You love me!

We're really trying to say more.people came on the forums to say "I don't want FV rules!" Than those that came on the forum to say "I want FV rules!"?

Lol.

I want FV rules!

There. I want FV rules, AoC, and increased rares. More loot and harder to monopolize spawns: drive those prices down. That's high school economics, and it's better for casuals.

The anti-FV lobby is by my estimation a somewhat transparent effort by people who prefer an economy that allows them to dominate a small pool of extremely valuable pieces in order to keep prices high. When you consider that a market-controlled TLP is a great way for a person with no moral compass and an entrepreneurial bent to turn a tidy profit on his eighteen boxed bots, it's not hard to explain the sudden surge in anti-truebox lobbying coming from the same directions.

FV isn't important, it would be cool, but it isn't going to make or break either of the servers.
Selos if left alone will do great, Mangler won't, neither of those because of lack of FV loot.

A very reasoned response. Your're not supposed to do that on the internet, it's against the rules. But if you promise not to tell anyone I'll try to respond in kind, and not try to get a bunch of kids from 4chan you brigade you with hate speech.

I agree with you that a free trade TLP has been growing in popularity, and if you're a cyber-stalker you already know that I've advocated for this rule-set on Selos. (If you're not, I've already advocated this rule set for Selos.) But I don't think it's right for Mangler (or whatever the real casual server ends up being called) for the following reasons:

1) A lot of people still want to relive the classic experience. I know a lot of folks have been there are done that, but a lot of people haven't. Also, a lot of people just want to do it again. Part of that classical experience is getting groups together to finish quests. This is especially true for things like Epics. If all you need to do to get epic items is sell Kronos, it will be hard to justify getting a guild together to farm items for your epic if those epics parts would better used to fund the guild.

2) You loose a lot of the sense of progression. Guilds that are a little behind the cutting edge will not have much incentive to do older content if their members can just buy the gear they're trying to find.

3) I think AoC and instances are needed for a real "ultra casual" server, and DBG really doesn't have much information on what impact those will have if there is a FV loot system in place. The fast release rate of Selos will partially offset this, because not everyone will have had enough time to complete cutting edge content. But for a more casual paced server, it's entirely possible that mudflation could trivialize raiding, and make it just about farming kronos.

4) The economic impacts of adding FV rules to a TLP server are unknown. That means that DBG will need to do extensive testing before launch (lol), or just roll the dice and hope it's not a disaster. Since Selos is only going to be around for a little while, if there is a major issue with a FV rule-set, the mistake will only be around for so long. And if there are issues, DBG could take steps in mitigate the damage in future expansions more quickly.

To be honest, I think #4 is why DBG will not add FV to either server, so this is likely a moot point.

(And yes, Selos is the hardcore server right now.)

You meant the Daybreak profit economics impact, not the impact on the server's purely in-game economy between players, right? I imagine that the impact on Daybreak's side would be an increase in the purchase of kronos in order to buy stuff in the later expansions, but implementing open loot is the only way to find out -

Precisely, the Krono sales would be off the charts.

they would, but, I believe the increase in general supply, plus, and this is very important, plus the presence of AoCs (i.e., if people wanted to, they could do the encounters themselves if things are too expensive) will help keep individual item prices down.

I actually played on FV for a few years, from like 2006 to 2009. now, I was not there in the first few years of FV's existence, so what it was like in the beginning I can't say. But the time I was there, there were some pretty expensive items, but the reason for that was, there were only like 2 highly capable raid guilds, 1 casual alliance that failed a lot when clerics didn't make it on raid night, and the rest of the server packed full of non raiding casuals (i.e. the consumers). Demand thus greatly outstripped supply. so, there were some pretty high prices on a few individual raid items, although some of it was surprisingly low.

However, I expect Selos to be different, and have a lot more than 2.5 raid guilds actively raiding, at least in the beginning, which will create more supply relative to demand than I saw on FV before. That might not last forever, but at least in the beginning it should be different. So, at least in the beginning, the kronos will be off the charts for Daybreak, but it will be for the sheer volume of trade going on, not because it costs 20 krono for a PoP elemental bracer.

Maybe, but remember what happened with D3. If everything just costs cash, people will just stop playing. The main reason why people buy Kronos on TLPs is so that can get to the group / raid game quicker. If there is no raid game except for a few Krono farming guilds, then there will be no reason to buy kronos, and the server will die out. Which, again, is less likely to happen on the fast paced Selos server.

People buy less krono then you think...

You know how many krono ENTER the server since they are gamewide and not local?

I have 17 on my account from past TLP's and live servers. I know a lot of people with the same, one guy i play with has over 100. I know they were bought at one point but I doubt people are buying as many krono as people think.

Okay, so to recap. You believe the casuals on Selo should focus on:

• Max out on level and AA fast.
• Then spend their time raiding.
• Drop the "take it slow" attitude.
• Put some effort in while there.

Wow. If that's true...what kind of behavior should we expect to see from the hardcore players on Selos?!

I think Hateseeker is on point here. Some things will always be expensive in-era because there will be a limited pool of players able to acquire them, but the benefit of FV trading rules is that those items will be a different set of items than the ones we've always seen at extortionary prices in other TLPs. That's actually a big deal. DBG will make bank because some people are willing to shell out for BiS, but the casuals who are never willing to pony up a week's salary for kronos will still be able to acquire raid-wearable gear that's in higher supply due to AoC, more lenient load-balancing, and better rare mob access--and that's not even mentioning that a lot of prices will come down when formerly expensive items are no longer best-in-slot.

EDIT:

They'll do the same things, they'll just do it all in the first weekend.

By drop the take it slow attitude, I mean, they should understand that the server's purpose is to facilitate raiding. I don't mean that they have to raid 40 hours a week, I mean that instead of standing around in PoK chatting like they might normally do, actually attend raids. They might still be slow in that they can only play 10 total hours a week, that's fine, cause the server will facilitate raiding like that.