Fix Warrior class please

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Syrup, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Goth Augur

    Do the heals not generate decent agro? Curious
  2. Goth Augur

    isnt there like 3 paladins that play the game?
  3. Goth Augur


    About your other concerns about warrior.

    The only valid one is AE agro abilities are a little slow.
  4. sojero One hit wonder


    Actually I went and tested that, they have a small chance to create any agro. Heal agro is a very funny thing, thus the reason your healer never pulls agro off you by just heals. Runes are the real way to go, get on agro of everything by beacon or group heal, then let runes keep it off your healer.

    The way I tested was to go to EWK pull a trash mob with SK terror so I knew what the agro was. Then I would hit it once with pally to get on agro list. Then I cast various heal spells and would only get a little agro every once in a while. I made sure the sk was taking damage so that it was actual healing so that it was not, not getting agro based on no actual healing.
  5. Repthor Augur

    the way i understand it, there has to be a hp defichincy and the heal has to effectivly heal for something to cause the heal aggro. so healing for nothing just gets you on the hatelist so healing for aggro without replentishing hp dosent do jack for your aggro (there is some aggro that happenes to put you on the hatelist but you can ignore it pretty much) this is something paladins sufffers alot from imo.
  6. Brohg Augur

    That was changed in Underfoot. Previously hate generated was based on the spell's potential. That couldn't stay because Pal splash then worked more like the broken version of Rage+Wade from last year, couldn't not-tank anything in the zone.
  7. Goth Augur


    simple fix. Give pallies AE 0.1 sec stun and make warriors AE abilities faster recover.
  8. sojero One hit wonder


    I would love to see something come to give pallies more AE agro, not sure I care about wars on that front as I never had any issues with mine, but wasn't doing fast pace AE groups with my war, so no feelings either way for me. As for the .1 sec stun you would be amazed at how strong that would be, especially if you had a couple pallies in sync, thank god that would never happen.... It would have to be something besides an AE stun, maybe just a spell interrupt.

    In what context would the war need faster ae agro then what they have now?

    The issue is that is the single last thing SK have going for them, to take that away would put the class even further behind where it is now, which would make me an even sadder panda.
  9. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    I see the poor joke thread has been banished from the Veteran's Lounge.

    You earn one point of aggro for every hit point actually healed, not including any healing that went over the player’s HP maximum. For an easy example, if a player is missing 6000 HPs and you heal them for 10,000 HPs, you will earn 6000 points of aggro, not the full 10,000. This is, of course, before any aggro modifiers. If the player being healed is not missing any health, then you only earn whatever amount of aggro is associated with buffing/assisting. That would be why you were getting so little aggro from your heal testing.

    As for Warrior AE aggro, I actually like the place we're at right now. We have 4 abilities to choose from that require understanding of how they work and evaluating the situation for proper usage. It feels good to make smart decisions with a variety of tools. AE Taunt is a guaranteed successful taunt on everything around you to hit the top of the hate lists, at the cost of being the longest cooldown (timers as Brohg noted). Stormwheel Blades is the fastest refresh rate of our AE aggro tools and has no target limit, but comes at the cost of including damage so you don't want to use it near mezzed or rooted mobs. Roar of Challenge has about double the cooldown of Stormeheel Blades and comes with a target limit (checks against up to 5 mobs, can land on up to 3), but in exchange includes an accuracy debuff and deals no damage so is safe to use around CC'd mobs.

    Wade In to Battle has been coming up a lot lately, in part because it is a recent addition to our aggro arsenal, and also because it is being perceived as extremely powerful. It is a situationally strong tool which I will not underplay, but also has limitations. It is most effective when you are tanking many mobs (ex: Ethernere1 or the gehein island in the Void raid), because it is a reactive proc upon being hit, and builds good aggro without doing damage when triggered. The drawbacks that many don't seem to consider are that it doesn't proc very often when you're tanking 1 to 3 mobs, it has a very small range (35 units), and it only has a 40% uptime so it must be supplemented by using our other abilities. Poor usage of it, Arx4 for example, will just get you dead in a hurry. It can be very good, but is not reliable like the much greater range and on-demand abilities that SKs have access to, and I am okay with that.

    If I were to ask for any improvements to Warrior AE aggro, it would be a faster refresh on the Roar of Challenge line.
  10. sojero One hit wonder


    I once believed that as well, until I was corrected by I believe Ravengloom. So I went out and tested it. As you can see if you read my testing that I posted earlier that the SK was taking damage. I tried with all sorts of healing spells, group heals, direct, aurora, and none of them give agro based on heal amount anymore. If they give more than 1 agro its random, sometimes the pally would go up a couple % on the sk, sometimes it wouldn't at all, it would about 1 in 6 casts and nowhere near the amount being healed for. BTW I didn't have attack turned on on the SK, so still only had the initial terror agro.

    Go test for yourself, it was interesting for me to find out, and really made me kinda sad that it wasn't more agro for a pally.
  11. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    I didn't see anything in the testing about intentionally taking damage, so that does change the perspective. I'll have to test it for myself later, but maybe that change is the reason Paladins have been having trouble with their aggro?
  12. sojero One hit wonder


    That change happened back in UF because as Brogh said a single splash and the pally was tanking everything, oh the memories and laughter first time I saw it :). The problem is, because pallies don't get agro reduction AA (obviously) then if it was a 1 to 1 agro, they would rip agro all the time on raids and they would be insane agro in group and would have a never ending supply of ae agro then. I just see it as more of a hindrance than a benefit since their single target agro is still good enough (debatable as to how good) to hold agro in any situation needed. Could you imagine healing classes agro if they were to do a 1 to 1 on it? wow.
  13. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    A tank mask with aggro modifier probably contributed to the Paladin suddenly tanking everything by bumping the heal ratio higher than a 1:1.

    Shaman still seem to generate a significant amount of aggro with their wave heals, as I usually see them high on aggro when picking up trash mobs in Arx1, but maybe those wave heals function differently in their aggro generation.
  14. Damoncord Augur


    If I recall correctly there was also a check on if the enemy was intelligent. Meaning mobs like animals ignored heal agro almost fully, but playable race mobs almost always got full agro from the heal.
  15. Erde Kaiser New Member

    They hold aggro just fine. I run a Bst and Monk with my Warrior. I can spam a couple aggro gens, hit armorer, and DPS full time on the Monk without ever ganking off the War. All I do is switch over when armorer needs refreshed and spam a couple more aggro gens. They only time my Warrior struggles is if a merc healer casts a heal on incoming or if I pull with the Bst so it's slowed when it gets there, he just has to fetch the mob is all. I would like an AA Invis but I have a druid for that if I want it bad enough. Pots work fine if you pay attention to when it's wearing off.
  16. sojero One hit wonder


    The issue with that would be the fact that healers pallies don't rip agro in Neriak raids when they heal, but I would have to go test in Neriak or somewhere with player races to be 100% sure. I tried it on undead in EWK, the spider bear things, and one of the cultists, but your right, I didn't think of the player characters. I know animals and undead have special rules for agro.
  17. Damoncord Augur


    I meant it used to be like that, it is very possible that it was changed.
  18. Iila Augur

    [43372/10632] Splash of Atonement Rk. III
    Classes: PAL/103
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 2332
    Target: Target Ring AE
    Range: 100', AE Range: 50'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Casting: 1s, Recast: 18s, Timer: 2, Rest: 1.5s
    Hate: 100
    Max Targets: 6
    1: Increase Current HP by 2697
    2: Decrease Poison Counter by 27
    3: Decrease Poison Counter by 27
    4: Decrease Disease Counter by 27
    5: Decrease Disease Counter by 27
    6: Decrease Curse Counter by 22
    7: Decrease Curse Counter by 22
    8: Decrease Corruption Counter by 16
    9: Decrease Corruption Counter by 16
    10: Dispel Detrimental (7% Chance)
    11: Dispel Detrimental (7% Chance)
    Text: You are cleansed.
  19. sojero One hit wonder


    Do all heals have this? I know they did special things with splash, I am mainly talking about other heals.
  20. Lianeb Augur

    Howl of the Warlord is a permanent invis until you zone. There are still alot of people that miss the invis part because there is no buff icon you can click off.

    Play 3rd person you will see your name in ( ) and you are invis.