Fight Fire

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Orbital101, Dec 12, 2018.

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  1. gotwar Gotcharms

    Did any of those mobs give you XP, faction, or whatever (read: collectibles, achievements)?

    Then you were exploiting. That's the problem. You claim there is no grey area and that this is simple, but a developer post in this very thread contradicts what you are saying.
    Moege likes this.
  2. Piemastaj Augur

    I merely asked for a developer to set a clear guideline of what is considered an unintended way of doing tasks. I am unsure how that is an unreasonable question based on concerns already posted.

    I never said anything was taken away. Asking for a clear understanding on how the developers view things is not a crime. I think you should take a step back and let the dev's do their job, because you are not qualified to do that for them seeing as you do not know either.
    Pirlo and Vdidar like this.
  3. Arkeal_Rathe_Bots Lorekeeper

    Then wait until its fixed?? You don't need ALL the achievements to progress....

    A clear guideline on any task is in the task steps -- Kill X mob -- Hail X mob --Kill More X Mob. It's pretty straightforward. It's a mission. Not a zone for farming, Not a zone to faction. It's a mission. If you want guidlines on how to complete it, EQResource has some good guides..... The fact I even have to say this stuff is baffling.

    Let me ask you this.. What in this mission takes 5 hours? NOTHING, not a darn thing unless you are wiping for 5 hours. You aren't in there wiping for 5 hours, you arent in there trying to figure it out for 5 hours. You aren't being honest with yourself.. that much is certain. And I don't think anyone in here griping about this is really that stupid to not know the answer to their own question. You are just playing dumb for the hell of it at this point.
    FawnTemplar and Alekzandre like this.
  4. Piemastaj Augur

    What if you go link dead and the task bugs out? I mean the fact you are naive about all of these grey areas is comical
  5. Pano Augur

    We are now that we figured out they were broken and when we saw the drop rate of evolving items in this mission, hence the post by Good. We're at the point where we actually need all the achievements, the rest being done so yeah, we have to test theories on some of these.
  6. Arkeal_Rathe_Bots Lorekeeper

    Do you think the dev's can't tell if you went LD and had to get the task again? Do you REALLY think they are going to ban you for that, or rollback or whatever? They can tell when you loot something, what time you looted it, how you looted it. You can only say you went "LD" and had to get the task again so many times before you catch the hammer.....
    FawnTemplar likes this.
  7. Arkeal_Rathe_Bots Lorekeeper

    Sure you may need some random achievements but its not blocking you from progression is what I'm saying.
    FawnTemplar likes this.
  8. Drogba Augur

    Ban anyone who doesn't catch random dev comments on random threads on forums. Saying 'don't do this'

    Reading forums apparently now being a requirement of playing the game. 'We made it possible to do this, we coded the game, but read this fine print here that says no, and runs contrary to optimal play.'


    When you punish people for grey areas, it means any player is also meant to start making assumptions on what the intent of the devs are in each and every 'is this bug?' moment. And that's not always easy. At what point should all gamers playing a game be expected to be bug testers first, and gamers second.

    Does X work this way because they wanted it too?
    Does X work this way because of poor design, they are aware of it, and just left it in the game anyway due to some contraint (e.g. time)
    Does X work this way because it's a bug, but the bug has been deliberately left alone to be embraced as part of the game?

    etc. Players shouldn't have to make these guesses and then receive punishments on rare occasions for guessing wrong.

    It's very anti-consumer practice to punish people for taking paths of least resistance wherever found in games, that's the natural and ideal route for a gamer to take. Anyone that doesn't take that path is acting differently because they either. 1. happen to know something (e.g. knowledge of previous things that people were banned for) 2. have some odd personality (which is fine!) and have moral objections to not doing things the way that they personally deem to be the correct way to do things 3. Gets more fun out of playing a game their own specific way which runs counter to the path of least resistance, (e.g. not looting raid gear but raiding, to make the game harder.)
    Fadyena, Mediik, Bronut and 10 others like this.
  9. Vdidar Augur

    It’s not like the devs are overly interested in listening to testers feedback outside of testing raids during a beta session....
  10. smash Augur

    Sounds like you trying to bend the things as much you can.

    I hope that the devs take a good look at the logs and ban the people who have been exploiting the things. This sounds much like the cactus.

    If not ban then a full rollback to prior to the release of tbl.

    And maybe time to make shared punishment as well, if above 25% of a guild has done exploit, all the guild should be punished as well, would prob make guilds more likely to throw people out.
  11. Ssdar Augur

    Simple solution to this specific task if farming for chase items is not intended: put the loot in a chest that spawns after the final mobs die. Grant the lockout when the chest is opened. Make the final hail/dialogue/port to pok required for lore/progression stage updates.

    The greater issue of task farming is a much more complicated one though. As Got posted it has been a longstanding method of farming collectibles/hunters to flip missions and was even encouraged/explicitly allowed back when that was current content. The same applies when attempting to get a specific achievement in group missions and/or raids.

    As someone who enjoys being a completionist and maximizing my character, this response about farming is a little disheartening and implies that I should expect to wait months to complete my goals I have set for myself and depending on the rng and lockout timers perhaps never even reach my character's full potential with no way to attempt to increase my odds.

    Please reconsider this blanket statement as it punishes those who like to think outside the box and develop new and interesting strategies for content completion.
  12. Piemastaj Augur

    Because asking for a clear understanding is bending the rules, you got

    Preemptively finding things out is how you avoid bans. When is asking questions against rules?
    Vdidar likes this.
  13. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Tasks do typically work from the request. so if you want to sit around for 6 hours with nothing there that's fine. the point is to only be able to get an attempt once every six hours. Sitting around doing nothing six hours is the same, for that task, as finishing the task and waiting for the six hours to pass. We would hope you want to do something more interesting than sit around for six hours... but. I expect you are just being intentional pedantic to be argumentative for the sake of it.

    yes. this does include challenge achievements.
    and.... link to prove it so we can yell at the dev.
    LD happens. its a way of life. BUT saying it "not an exploit" can lead to behavior that we do consider an exploit, but there's not a \thing we can do about it... something goes wrong... disconnect your computer. That is not a happenstance, that is you (generic you, not the you I am quoting) intentionally cheating by disconnecting your computer. It *IS* exploiting. A "natural" link dead is an accident... whatever.
    This is pedantic excuses.
    You have the ability to punch someone in the face. You have the ability to keep punching them in the face until they die. What you are saying with this argument is that you should be "free" to do that if you did not know of the laws against punching people in the face until they are dead. (OR your point 3, if you enjoy doing it, you should be allowed!)
    There are communities. These communities make rules. This game has a community. There are rules.

    As with ANY rule... there are going to be edge cases. Covering all edge cases is not possible and never happens.

    We do expect you to use common sense, AND we use common sense on this side. If you go link dead, and through that "avoid" a lockout we aren't going to slam you with the banhammer.

    But as someone else said... if we see a pattern where you go Link Dead everytime you are about to "loose" then we will come to suspect that the "Link Death" is not real and you are disconnecting your computer to cheat.
    Alekzandre likes this.
  14. Sancus Augur

    That's a quote from Phathom, the Producer of EverQuest during Call of the Forsaken. Forgive us for not realizing the producer didn't know what he was talking about.
    Kaenneth, Mediik, Thoxsel and 22 others like this.
  15. Drogba Augur

    That's a false equivalence. In games you punch people in the face for entertainment, in life, you don't do that unless you wish you break the laws of the land, and get sent to prison.

    How does this communities thing work? If i rally 50 people to make a new rule, is it now a thing? Because I'd rally to make not being banned for mind reading dev intent a rule.
    Fadyena, Thoxsel, Barton and 5 others like this.
  16. Piemastaj Augur

    I was saying if you spent 6 hours killing trash and not doing the task. Not being argumentative, it is realistic that u spend 6 hours killing mobs and the task times out. You might get loot while getting no lockout because the task times out.
  17. Axxius Augur

    Whoever made the #Cactusgate t-shirt, do you have your #Stratosgate design ready yet? ;)
    Elyssanda and Pirlo like this.
  18. Intenso Augur

    couldnt task just give full lockout on request if we arnt allowed to drop them for any reason?
    Sancus likes this.
  19. gotwar Gotcharms

    You should make a PSA about this, then, because there are players who are vehemently against exploiting, but frequently use this very strategy to figure out, and complete, achievements, collections, and hunter spawns.

    I'm one of them, by the way, and I'd like to think I fall firmly in the category of players who are strongly against cheating and judiciously report exploits and bugs. If my mind is currently blown over this stance, you probably want to communicate this to your community to prevent players from getting into trouble.
    Zamiam, Mintalie, Fanra and 5 others like this.
  20. Lisard Augur

    you may as well remove the /kickplayer task and /kickplayer exp commands as well, really things up.

    also remove /dza /dzs /taskadd because by your reasoning, these are all considered exploits.
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