[Feedback] Nukes

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Yinla, Aug 22, 2021.

  1. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Since the dot revamp, nuke damage seems to be a long way behind dot damage for all classes.

    Nukes seem to be the most low mana cost choice for hybrids but do far less damage. The huge increase in dot damage is hurting the pure nuke damage classes by a lot.

    Nukes could all do with being revamped to be brough back in line with the new dot damage values.
    Ibadan Kun'Tirel, Dre. and Andarriel like this.
  2. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    They need to do something for us wizards! i Retired mine to the baz lol. They need to make us cool again! i remember being in a good and doing a good crit and everyone in group be going oh wow! course never be like that again that was in Plane of Power Era and mobs nowadays just have way too many hps!

  3. Zunar Augur

    Yeah I think nukes could use a bump up across all classes atm.
    It's noticed more directly on wizards I think, cuz well, it's the wizards only trick.
    It would be nice if nukes were more worth casting.
    On my beastlord if I cast a nuke on a CoV mob, it won't even lose 1% HPs.
    Nuking during burns is a dps loss these days, cuz of casting a nuke for 0.5 seconds will lose you MORE dps by not swinging weapon for 0.5 seconds (unless you have a bard for Quicktime AA).
    The alternative to chain DD+DoT spells is a viable tactic for short burn events, but will run you out of mana quickly.
    Iven likes this.
  4. Warpeace Augur

    I don't think "ALL" classes really need their nukes bumped up. Some classes are making a killing on the DoT's and no reason to raise their dps even further widening the gap.
    Sancus, kizant and Coagagin like this.
  5. Zunar Augur

    Care to elaborate?
  6. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Aristo needs to decide what he wants from each class before beta. If he wants those classes with both dots and DDs casting them he needs to stagnate the dots and just improve the nukes, if he wants they just dotting then discontinue giving them DDs.
    Coagagin likes this.
  7. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    No, they need to deal with imbalance of direct damage as a method of damage first. There are some really silly built in aa negative modifiers to direct damage (or dd classes) compared to over time damage (dots have higher crit damage add, necros have higher base twincast rates, wizard have the lowest base crit chance, etc.). Direct damage resist rate vs dot resist rate (due to built in spell mods and/or class specific abilities) needs to be examined. Twincast dot crit rate versus dd needs to be fixed as well (if either part of a dot twin crits, the dot crits vs dd dealt with entirely separately, including resist checks)..

    And then there's the general spell vs melee issues in game. Heroic modifiers do pretty much nothing for spell casters, but several melee classes can now hit 100% critical rate with more closing in, perhaps even in the next expansion bump. Not to mention the spell bar limitation vs the 20+ timers that some melee have access to on discs/abilities.

    Making direct damage more viable would also help raiding if they aren't ever going to fix the buff slot issue on npcs.

    More will need to be done specifically for wizards to let them catch up in some manner. And possibly some tweaks for the hybrids that cast dots and dds. But it would be much better, and honestly show the player base that the developers understand the glaring issues for direct damage that has been in the game for quite some time and is just getting worse, if direct damage is dealt with as a whole first, then address classes after.
    Fanra, Iven and Yinla like this.
  8. Iven Antonius Bayle

    After about reaching PC lvl 100 the majority of the magician DD spells become baby nukes. It is annoying to chain click the same two spell buttons over and over while a necro just has to activate a few dots with a single macro button click and then can eat popcorn and enjoy how it does outperform the magician. Spell cooldown does limitate magician DPS alot and the class is nearly always at full mana when having ENC MP regen buffs and auras while having not much. problems with aggro. It definetly would help the players to increase the DD dmg and MP cost to 150-200% for most lvl 100 and higher DD spells just to reduce the click orgies. Other classes that can cast nukes, like the druid, enchanter and beastlord, are affected to by this but are by far not that dependant on nukes like the magician and wizard classes.
    Coagagin likes this.
  9. kizant Augur

    Wizards are the only class significantly behind where they should be right now. There is no problem with "nukes". That's such a silly statement.
    Ssdar and Sancus like this.
  10. Velisaris_MS Augur

    Wizards complaining about nukes.

    *Clerics have entered the chat.*
  11. kizant Augur

    Only an idiotic cleric would enter this conversation. A wizard with poor nukes is only comparable to a cleric with poor heals.
  12. Velisaris_MS Augur

    As a cleric, I find it highly entertaining every time I see a wizard complain about nukes.
  13. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Clerics need a big damage boost. If you are healing then you aren’t doing any damage. Clerics attempting to top parses might actually make some people adopt them as mains.
  14. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    This isn't about being behind, they didn't balance dots against nukes when they did the dot revamp. More classes than ever want to dot raid mobs and their just are not the slots for them and nuking is no longer a viable option for those with both.

    This needs to be addressed for the next expansion, but if we leave this discussion until beta it will be too late and we will run out of time.

    Wizzys and mages need a lot more love for nukes, but the dots and nukes for classes with both needs to be looked at. To say otherwise is just burying your head in the sand and leads to players demanding more buff slots on mobs to deal with things not landing.
  15. kizant Augur

    Clerics already do enough damage.

    What classes are you referring to? Druids? Necros still only nuke with assert, enchanters still mostly nuke with mind* spells, shaman still use their ice nuke, bards still use insults, rangers still use the summer's line, SKs still use spear and lifetaps (whichs are nukes). Beasts always preferred DoTs over nukes since theirs have zero cast time. Druids are the only ones i can think of that used to have a more nuke focused lineup. You want to rethink all nukes because of one class? Is that what you're saying?

    Mages don't have a problem with nukes. What are you talking about? Their sustained nuke damage is similar to wizards and then you add in all the crazy pet DPS they do. They're fine.I really feel like you've been trolling lately. Every post is really out there.
    Ssdar and Duder like this.
  16. Skrab East Cabilis #1 Realtor

    Show me some parses, let's see the big damage numbers.
    Axel likes this.
  17. Fintank Augur

    Spells are supplemental damage for hybrids, not their main source. Leave them out of this. This thread is weird.
  18. Bigstomp Augur

    Probably not really a fair example, but on Aaryonar clerics can put up some real impressive numbers.
    kizant likes this.
  19. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    So your saying the proc nerf had no effect on Mages and they were over powered before and where they should be now, compared to dot classes and melee?

    DD classes DPS has fallen behind Dot classes, are you telling me I am wrong?
    Something needs to be done about the number of dots on raid mobs, tell me I'm wrong?
    Tell me another way to decrease the number of dots on raid mobs without decreasing a classes DPS other than improving nukes.

    Beasts had nukes before that were worth casting when the mob was buffed lock, now they go OOM, the same can be said for rangers. Our shaman still prefer their dots over their ice nukes from what they have said the dots are more powerful.
  20. kizant Augur

    The proc nerf impacted Mages, but yes, they were an over powered class and they're current DPS is perfectly fine compared to dot classes and melee.

    Wizard DPS has fallen behind all other DPS classes. What DD classes are concerned about? If you're talking about Mages, then again, they're DPS is good as it is. Enchanters have fallen behind but their issues are more complicated than just needing bigger nukes. But then I'm not even sure why they'd be considered a DD class.

    If you want to consolidate more debuffs then fine. If you want the devs to fix their lag problems so they can add more debuffs slots then OK. If you think some DoTs should be consolidated so less slots are used then sure. But why improve DDs for classes that don't need upgrades? You would just make those classes even stronger. That's the worst way to address the problem.

    Your shaman can still use both right now. It's not a matter of one or the other. Beasts still have nukes worth casting in certain cases. It's not like their DDs are terrible. They just have long cast times which kills their melee.
    Ssdar and Jondalar like this.