[Feedback] and Request

Right, but OW would still be affected. You'd just essentially have access to 2 different raids.

This is what I'm talking about by being selfish. Lots of people still care about server/game firsts.

Youre willing to sacrifice others gameplay for your own selfish desires.

You may not care about it, and claim time has moved on, but theres still plenty of people with strict raiding schedules and the goal to be #1

This goes back to tying into what i said about "my way or the highway" mentality. You're proving my point and showing that it's very selfish. "Who cares about other people's wants in the game, this is what I want and everyone else who disagrees is wrong".

I'd concede that the solutions proposed may not be ideal.

Is a guild that has the explicit goal of visiting a server to swoop in on events, then leave, to create new characters elsewhere and do the same thing; a good thing?

I think this is a core point that I hear a lot of people having no issue with. Is this just "a part of TLP Everquest"?

This is the root of what seems really unnatural to me and begs mitigation to hinder or stop it. But maybe that expectation is unrealistic in the game's modern context.

Youre adding in details that have no bearing on the situation. That's why they get ignored.

Why aren't players allowed to join whatever server they want and play whatever way they want? Youre doing it. Why can't others?

A guild moves server to server plvling enough boxes to hijack goals the organic population was targeting. Claim the target, then abandon those characters to go do it on a new server; in perpetuity.

Is this sacrificing other's gameplay for their own selfish desires?

Yes. After 30 TLPs and 25 years later, you're not going to recreate that experience you missed out on in 2001. The knowledge of the game and your familiarity with it have stolen any true nostalgia you'll try to replicate.

Not at all. Because you can contest them. They're not hijacking anything. They're playing the game and doing an event that was meant to be done. They repeat the same things over and over. Is that not what youre doing on TLPs? Just repeating the same things over and over?

Not being good enough or fast enough or being in the right spot at the right time. Thats not sacrificing ones game play. Me getting to the epic mob for my turn in 3p seconds before you isnt sacrificing you nor is it hijacking anything.

Now telling the devs to make it so no one can do their final turn ins until all your friends have completed all the prior.steps of their epic first is indeed sacrifice others as they may be ready before you..and theres no rule about who gets to do the turn Ina first.

First come, first serve

This would actually be a great opportunity for your server to stand up against these cosmic TLP hoppers stealing everyone's joy. If yall put as much effort I to that as you do trying to explain how taking away their game play so you can have yours is not considered selfish, it'll be as trivial as that level 1 fire beetle

Correct. Recreating the experience (a TLPs main purpose?) is not possible with this type of behavior. Why is this an unrealistic expectation?

Because you expect others to wait for you. You don't get to play God and decide who what when and where.

Youre all given equal opportunity. Just as you were in the past. Go take what you want.

I have a feeling we're coming from two VERY different player perspectives.

I have been playing 2 months. I have never played beyond Kunark, am reaping significant nostalgic enjoyment from my time in game, am spending significantly to boost my progress-per-hour, and in the complete opposite position you assumed I was in.

I played for a short time during the initial release of the game, and moved on to other things. So the experience being as authentic as possible, without these modern eccentricities you seem to think are unreasonable to avoid, is a huge part of my continued patronage.

When the experience becomes inauthentic to an unreasonable extent, I will bail. It's not a huge deal, but I do enjoy the experience on Tormax as it exists now, very much.

Yep these solutions may not be the ones.

You admitted there's a problem. Resigned yourself to not finding a solution. If I had as much invested in this game as I'm sensing you do, I'd be a lot more open to finding one.

EDIT: You know what, this is a huge assumption on my part. It's entirely possible bots, boxers, and a small group of people paying to play this like Diablo 2 are the lion's share of Daybreak's profits, and responsible for keeping the servers up. I had fun debating this.

The amount of knowledge available on the internet
Map packs
Not staring at your spellbook
No corpse runs
Multitude of other QoL features already makes it an unreasonable extent

Truth is, you enjoy the QoL and don't actually want the true 1999 "authenticity" that people claim. Every time someone claims they want that feeling, there's cries for QoL that wasn't there in 1999.

I never once claimed there was a problem, and as such will not create one to find your solution foe you.

I don't play on TLPs, nor have any intention to, but here are my thoughts on their suggestions:

1) Journeyman mercs as they stand now can be used to molo up to around level 70-ish. While this may seem like a good idea to catch folks up, it goes against what the dev's vision for the game is: grouping with each other to achieve a goal. IF this were implemented, I'd suggest making them apprentice mercs, which are bad. They'd offer some support for players, but not be overpowered to be used to molo up to current level on Tormax.

2) I can see this being an issue, but it certainly doesn't fall under any play nice policies of EQ. In fact, I'd say the PNP is more player enforced than DPG enforced. Some people just want to keep reliving the "awaken the sleeper" moment of their EQ lives for some odd reason, much like they keep jumping ship from one TLP to a fresh TLP every year. Others, like me, were never involved in waking the sleeper, and may take the time to have that experience for once. While it may be true that some big mouth person is coming over to Tormax and boasting about awakening the sleeper, you can't paint with a broad brush on this. The solution to this would be to add two instances via an AoC, one for awakening the sleeper, and one for post-awakening. Bragging rights for this is almost non-existent anymore as awakening the sleeper first in era on any server back in the day really meant something. And, if I remember correctly, it was a Zek server that pulled off the first, or one of the earliest, kills of the sleeper in era, something that blue servers were caught off-guard with.

In all honesty, Teek should have been the only TLP released this year. People were drawn to the other server that had random loot rules but making it free trade as well just made it more popular. But krnono farmers are rampant on Teek from my understanding, so there is no telling how long Teek will stay high population, especially as it hits post-PoP era.

I wish you luck. Coming from a live server with only one functioning raid guild, I can certainly feel your pain on recruitment, especially during the summer months, but hopefully the traditional TLP crowd will emerge on Tormax and move it forward.

You got yourself a misquote. Quoting me on something I never said.

Screwed up the quote and accidentally cut off the member part. Fixed it!

Maybe I didnt phrase myself well. I do get where you're coming from. I used to race for example Path of Exile HC ladder quite hard on league launches myself. So I understand people enjoying that. But that's a different game and a context where my racing does not impact the game experience for others (i.e. alter the world/content). And it's not been done one hundred times over before.
If you've played on Tormax, you'll notice the community is not your traditional hardcore player base. As Trinost said, there's actually no krono economy. If people get upgrades, items are just handed down to people who need things. It's a different kind of atmosphere. That's what makes the server a real breath of fresh air.
To then just have a group of people come and "race", remove a key piece of the game world and then leave the server again as soon as they came ... sure this is not anyone's server, and you are free to do as you please since you pay the same subscription fee as anyone else etc .. but I'm sure anyone can understand this is not going to be the most fun of experiences for the people who actually play and will hopefully continue to play on Tormax? It's one of those things, justified or not, that is gonna leave a bitter aftertaste for some and as a whole is not going to do the population any service at all. Again it's not about letting me or others take a server first away from you or whomever, it's about giving the community that actually lives on Tormax the chance to see the pre-awaken time.

I think Zit phrased it very well. I personally never played beyond Velious and am looking forward to seeing this community take the server to live. So I hope some solution at least can be found to let people like us (many of which make up the community on Tormax) experience the pre-awakened state (via DZ or other). And this goes for any other similar events in future expacs of course (I have no idea if in later expacs such exist).

I hope I've been able to bring across how I see things. You are free to come to Tormax, race and leave if that is where your enjoyment lies. Noone can stop you from doing that. You are a paying customer. The only thing I would ask is for DBG to also consider the returning player base that makes up Tormax, to try and retain them, and look for solutions to also give them the best TLP experience possible.

Signing off

Yes. This is what I was talking about to alleviate both sides of the issue. It will let OW still get it's sleeper awoken while still giving access to pre-awoken sleeper through DZ. Essentially yes, giving access to both raids.

I'm on Tormax, and I agree with 7rinost about the Sleeper.

I'm not on any TLP and this discussion should be in the TLP section since it is a TLP issue.

With that said.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask the EQ developers to make the sleeper an AoC kind of thing or to put a time lock on waking the sleeper until a certain point in the TLP lifecycle.

I don't think you're going to get anywhere discussing it on the forums because no one here has a power to actually influence the game development.

Just look at the 100's of small QoL improvements that have been suggested/requested.

1. Mercs in Velious will be way overpowered until at least level 80, would need some mitigation similar to how they handle pets being more powerful

2. Sleeper is a tough one. Why should 1 group of players stop another group of players from doing something? There is nothing in the EULA to cover this nor in the PNP. So you are out of luck stopping anyone from playing their way.

It has been asked for years that Sleeper not being awakened be available in a DZ and the devs have always come back and said it is not possible. Being that the devs do not have time to do something simple like add stats to the new items they created for the new hot zone quests, I very much doubt they will have time to figure out how and implement a DZ for sleeper in 16 days when Velious launches. IF they ever do make a DZ for it, it would be nice to have it available on all servers.

You have a major issue with assigning equivalence to all items in a general category, ignoring their individual scales, even if they're orders of magnitude different from each other. Reforming the other party's statements into something more manageable for you, and then if that doesn't work, literally telling them what they think/want/etc.

I still appreciate the participation--albeit lazy--but there are no trophies available for that, as you previously mentioned.