Expressly authorized 3rd party programs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Speckle, Dec 17, 2019.

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  1. Raccoo Augur

    For those people that say a certain program is ok to use, and even put advertisements on Facebook, you should have your people stream that on their Live accounts if you really think vanilla is ok by the TOS.
  2. Speckle Journeyman

    Terms of Service: You may not develop, share, or use any software, program, macro, or interface that modifies the game play in any way or that gives a user any kind of advantage over other end users, except as expressly authorized by Daybreak.

    Or to dumb it down: You may not use a 3rd party program that gives you any kind of advantage over other end users.

    If a program doesn't give you an advantage you wouldn't install it. The third 'or' is really important, even things that don't modify game play violate the Terms of Service. Gamparse and GINA violate the ToS, regardless of GMs choosing not to enforce it, it seems really dumb to violate the ToS coming back from a suspension as it's a virtual guarantee that GMs will show up and say Hi and can scan my computer for 3rd party programs that violate the ToS. I started a thread to find out if really popular programs were "expressly authorized" and they are not.

    Lizardman is a non-issue, Guides and GMs bypass all communication issues, you can reply while drunk in Ogre (3) and they will see what you type, you can have them on ignore and not know the language they claim to be speaking in and will see what they type.

    Unattended game play isn't the issue, because I figured worst case was a suspension and I might well check back on Janns and find him in the Cat Box, at his bind point or the safe point of the zone with a warning. Did you leave your child unattended? No, I hired a babysitter. Did you leave you child unattended? Yes, the stroller was out of my line of sight at the carnival for 30 seconds. I was babysitting Janns but that was unacceptable. I've been punished, if that makes you happy for whatever reason, Merry Christmas. And a special Merry Christmas to 3 spawn points in Blightfire that will rarely die for the next week.

    Now I have to follow the ToS so I read it and post-suspension no longer have the luxury of kind of following the ToS. I can't tell the GM that on Fanra's website there is a quote from Absor that implies that certain 3rd party programs are acceptable. The Snap when half (or more) of all accounts are suspended for violating the ToS is really unlikely but to avoid being a repeat offender I'll do the weird thing and follow the Terms of Service of the game that I'm playing unlike pretty much all raiders and a substantial portion of the entire player base.
  3. Bigstomp Augur

    Make a raid. Everyone who needs kills, go kill what you need. Whole raid gets credit. 72 people doing that, things add up fast.

    Some guild members go to sleep but leave toons logged on and get credit. Other guild members in entirely different time zones get kills while they sleep.

    Nothing 3rd party required. Just someone able to operate the raid tool.
  4. Thancra Augur

    Lies. On Antonius Bayle, you're giving a free pass on one guy using automated gameplay program to disrupt several zones so I guess that one allowed on the server?
  5. Fanra Augur

    You are interpreting "advantage" to cover everything that exists. If I use my web browser to look up information on Allakhazam, or EQ Resource, or Fanra's EverQuest Wiki, I have used a program to gain an "advantage" over those that don't. Guess what, Daybreak isn't going to suspend me for that.

    We have given you the answer. No programs are expressly authorized by Daybreak. That doesn't mean you can't use some programs, as long as they don't give you an unfair advantage.

    I gave the link (http://everquest.fanra.info/wiki/Utilities#Legality) where there are actual quotes from Daybreak personnel explaining what kind of programs are allowed and what are not.

    If you had been actually suspended for using a program that is allowed, you can appeal to Dreamweaver (Daybreak Community Manager). However, you were suspended for unattended gameplay, not for using one of the allowed programs.

    Not only that, but a program like GINA, where it just looks at the log files and places text on your screen when certain phrases show up, is the exact same thing as the in-game audio triggers, only instead of audio, it is text. Not only is that allowed, but the last thing Daybreak would want is publicity that they were "discriminating" against disabled (deaf) people.

    Yes, I think that if you actually just tabbed away for a minute and forgot to turn off your merc/pet, and you got suspended for it, that was uncalled for by Daybreak. Only those who actually do unattended gameplay for hours should be suspended. There have been numerous reports on the forum here of bot armies that go on for days or weeks with Daybreak doing nothing. Those are what Daybreak should be shutting down, not someone who tabs out for a minute or two.

    No. No you don't. Audio triggers are built into EQ.


    I understand your frustration with not getting a more clear answer from Daybreak about what is allowed and what is not. But you are not likely to get the answer that you want because Daybreak knows anything they say here will be quoted in the future.

    So they aren't going to say, "X program is expressly authorized", because that program could be changed tomorrow to do something not allowed and then Daybreak has to deal with all the people saying, "But you said I could use X program!".
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Winnowyl like this.
  6. Cicelee Augur

    Look.

    You were AFK killing. You openly admitted you were tabbed out and away from your character. That is a no no.

    To prevent this from happening in the future, do the following-

    Do not AFK kill with a merc or pet.

    If you do, regardless of any third party or first party or whatever, you might get caught and you might incur whatever punishment(s) are given. Simple as that.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Genoane like this.
  7. Tucoh Augur

    That's a lot of salt for a guy who got busted for AFK killing.

    I should probably re-enable my GINA alarms for tells on my boxes if GMs are running around pinging people. My boxes don't even have a visible chat window! Funny: I have to use an unauthorized third party program to prevent GMs from suspending me.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Tarvas like this.
  8. Vizier Augur

    DBG should just come clean and admit they design and tune raids with the assumption that GINA will be used by their players.
  9. Tarvas Augur

    I raid without GINA because to me it gets in the way. I work better just using the audio trigger feature they have in game.
    Yinla likes this.
  10. Zvenn Elder


    i dunno that i would make that assumption since virtually every raid has big bold yellow sentences across the middle of your screen for practically every emote...all you have to be doing is looking at the screen (which you should be doing if you are raiding as is)
  11. Vizier Augur

    Riiiight. So GINA is obsolete and not used. Lel.
  12. Zanarnar Augur

    If indeed every emote popped up on your screen like that, GINA wouldn't be needed.

    I flat-out refuse to use it. Its one of the reasons I stop raiding around Gates. GINA becomes all but required to avoid some raid mechanics with .. extremely poor emotes/telegraphing.

    They clearly have the tech to do emotes right in game (See this Shards Landing Raid event) They just don't use them consistently.

    Its pretty much my #2 gripe with DBG, they clearly rely on some 3rd party programs being available to the user base due to how they design the encounters. Even though it clearly gives you an advantage over someone who doesn't use it. (and is thus directly against the rules) Same with GAMparse. Being able to tune your dps rotation to get the most out of your burns puts you ahead of someone who can't due to not running a 3rd party program.

    So.. really.. Daybreak needs to spell out whats OK and whats not in a way that doesn't make EVERYTHING against the rules. Of course, like with our current political situation, rules only matter if they're enforced. DBG seems... lets be nice, very lax at enforcing their rules in their game. So just run whatever you want and keep your head down, and chances are they won't ever find you.

    Basically.. if you can't beat the cheaters, join em. When the consequences of being caught are near nil, there is no downside.
  13. Sikkun Augur

    Gina and Gameparse are both unauthorized 3rd party applications that provide features with game overlays that alter how players play. They are against the TOS and players could be banned anytime DBG decided to ban people for using them.

    Until Devs expressly authorize said applications that is and has always been true. People just don’t like that answer.
    Petalonyx likes this.
  14. Svann2 Augur

    I had hoped this would not need to be said but
    Lets get this over with!
  15. Buri Augur

    There are guilds that REQUIRE using GINA to raid. I know because I'm in one. If DBG were to ban everyone who used it, it would be like shooting themselves in the foot. They would lose so many people, the game would finally collapse.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  16. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Which is why saying there are no authorized 3rd party apps is meaningless. Acta Non Verba, deeds not words. In deed DBG approves of a number of 3rd party programs although in words they do not.

    Getting a game dev or gm to comment on authorized software is useless for the above reason. Now if they would list banned software that would be better. Of course there response is we can't say because the software could change.

    It is unfortunately up to each player to decide what they think DBG will allow (allow not authorize).

    As per the section I quoted in the Miragul server FAQ you can see they treat third party software differently on some servers (any True box server basically). So while DBG will not clearly state how the rules are different regarding 3rd party software they do make it clear that simply using third party software on Live servers is not enough to get you suspended or banned or they wouldn't have to differentiate in the rules between Miragul and other servers. How DBG treats third party software on Live servers is clearly more nuanced then it is on Miragul. At this point it is up to the player to determine exactly where that line is.

    I know where I think the line is but each player will have to determine that for themselves because DBG does not want to be pinned down on stating where that line is. Understandable.
  17. Vizier Augur

    Literally every guild that is raiding seriously requires it. The devs know this, they tune the events around it, obviously.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  18. Tarrin Augur

    I use a wristwatch to time some spawn points. Clearly my watch is a 3rd party application that provides a feature and alters how I play.

    I hope DBG doesn't ban me.
    Nennius and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  19. Laronk Augur


    Ahh if you filter your chat properly raid emotes all go down to one filter now. You don't need GINA to raid its just a nice to have.
    Tarvas likes this.
  20. CatsPaws Augur

    I am so glad I play this game worry and stress free. I log in and start doing what I want and then if I need to run out and play that hot game of chess (like op says he was doing) then I would park my guys somewhere safe - like lobby. If I am stuck doing forage or fishing somewhere then I invis up and suspend pets. But if I die cause invis drops? That's ok cause I have rez tokens or healer merc.

    Seems a lot of folks make this game a lot harder by trying to make it easier. Just play.
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