Expansions.. being salty or not..

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Whulfgar, Apr 18, 2020.

  1. Whulfgar Augur

    Good then you will have noticed EVERYONE on the beta forums was asking for a weaker then TBL (in difficulty) expansion. As every one (to include myself) did agree TBL was a bit heavier handed then most other expansions. And I think they listened TO WELL .. to everyone about down tuning the next expansion (This current ToV expansion)
  2. Zunnoab Augur

    The problem is it's hard to judge how this expansion feels to the bulk of the raiders if you're already in a very strong guild. I am saying that about myself too. Once a force is already mostly fully geared it becomes an SoD to Underfoot situation, which they admitted they could not tune around by expecting a fully geared force. I really wish I saved that post. I don't know if it's available anywhere, but it was an apology about how their design philosophy for Underfoot didn't work, explaining their reasoning.

    Honestly, I don't claim to have one good answer. I just don't want to see them stomping down the mid/low tier (again) with reactionary tuning changes.
  3. Lannin Elder

    Easy problem to solve with this it was too hard , too easy thing. Give guilds the option of picking a easy raid or a hard version of the same raid. Didn't we get that feature way back when LDoN came out , why not start adding this for new content. Make both halfs of EQ happy and give folks a choice. Im pretty sure the folks at EGL can add a tab for hard or easy mode.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  4. enclee Augur

    The hard mode raids weren’t a good implementation in SoD. They limited the raid size to 36, which leaves a lot of people on the bench. Those people then leave or retire.
  5. Zunnoab Augur

    SoD hard mode from my experience:
    Keep the tank/heal core and sit a bunch of DPS/support. It was a good idea, but yes poorly implemented. Council of the Nine was exactly the same.

    I'm no designer, but I'd envision hard mode having the events have variables controlling much of the tuning, mechanic intervals, how hard they hit, HP, etc, and the script initializing them differently depending on the difficulty. In a really crazy manner would be once beaten giving the players some control over it and dynamic achievements that record "best scores" for various settings, but that's pretty pie-in-the-sky and exposing too much to the player probably. It's also possibly all impractical with the time they have to design things.

    The marathon raid augs were kind of like that, ramping up each wave.
  6. Whulfgar Augur

    The reason this wont work ..

    Entirely due to the logical conclusion the harder the raid the better the reward (Risk / reward system) If the harder raid does not give better gear then the weaker version of the same raid ..

    Why choose the hard raid at all ? The reason people actually were proud of other guilds for beaing maeratas (even still) is because it was an actual challange to do so when it was the last live raid of current content.

    Notice .. TBL (harder content) actually brought the community together .. Cheering on each other ?

    Notice .. ToV (weaker content) actually has people bickering about .. Rankings server wide ?

    There is a 100% direct correlation of how people come together for harder content .. as opposed to hating each other over easy content .. TBL / TOV expansion has 100% proven this .
  7. Lannin Elder

    Pretty sure I said LDoN , those were 54 mans. SoD , I agree was a poor example of using this system hence why I didn't say use that as the model. I played LDoN raids when it was new , I found the hard mode to be a challage vs normal mode.

    Add a separate loot table for hard mode with better gear / coins whatever.

    Hard mode for the folks who want to race , have the dps and amazing players.

    Normal mode for the FnF guilds who don't have the perfect make up for raids , dps , healing , adps ect.

    Everyone gets to see content ,gets to raid , get gear , yet there would still be a good degree of difficulty for the hardcore , this is too easy crowd like you Whulf.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  8. Whulfgar Augur

    Oh dont think I'm not in favor of this type of system. I am merely pointing out the 1 inherent flaw thats all. I have seen people here on the boards complain about every thing ..
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    Hard mode in SoD was the exact same raid with a player limit lowered from 54 to 36 which just meant that 18 more people would sit out when switching from the normal raid to the hard raid but nothing else would change.
    Zunnoab likes this.
  10. Zunnoab Augur

    Aren't you kind of defeating your own point by assuming most wouldn't choose the harder version? Other games do it this way. I don't know how exactly they work. I think (if I recall) there are more than two difficulties with some games, where people can queue up for open raids with an easy one, then a more normal difficulty, and then a hard mode on top of that. I know tuning for that would be an impossible nightmare for Darkpaw's staff, but I know it's been done.

    I don't think a few days is enough time to "prove" anything, especially with the fiasco with how T3 unlocked. I don't even want to begin to touch that mess.

    If rewards had to be different, I'd suggest something like how the group gear in SoD upgrades the final tier of the raid gear. Something marginal but notable for the min/maxers, hypothetically.
  11. Whulfgar Augur

    No.
  12. Zunnoab Augur

    What about my hypothetical suggestion of marginal upgrades, like with the final tier of SoD visible armor, or the difference between TBL and GMM stuff, or between the dropped and raid tradeskill gear?
    Whulfgar likes this.
  13. Lannin Elder

    SoD versions of this tool were bad , because they did force you down to 36 , LDoN didn't do that , hence why again , im was suggestion that expac version over SoD version. I feel like maybe u didn't play LDoN Waring , it was a lot different and better then SoD. I don't think anyone in there right mind would want to see much if anything taken from SoD :p

    PS - Whulf , start tanking with no BP on and using a two hander with no Power Source to up the difficulty ! For the group game , go with replacing all your bezerkers for enchanters , lower your over all dps , dot everything so you cant mezz and use bind wound for healing.
    Whulfgar likes this.
  14. Whulfgar Augur

    One raid .. Two settings normal / hard.

    If the harder one does not offer anything outside of a checkmark .. nobody will farm it.

    If the harder one does offer better gear .. Everyone will farm it.. (and those who can not will cry about how unfair it is here on the forums)

    I personally believe a harder version should drop better gear.
    Lannin likes this.
  15. Zunnoab Augur

    Oh people will whine about marginally better gear, but it would be a lesser amount of people. Not lesser amount of posts of course.
    Lannin likes this.
  16. Whulfgar Augur

    Once again you will run into those people who refuse to leave a smaller guild who can not beat raid x, which they will inevitably cry foul over..
    Lannin and Zunnoab like this.
  17. Zunnoab Augur

    That is true, but no matter what they do they can't please everyone. I admit I went from criticizing the T3 unlock delay to understanding.

    Of course the unlock was a fiasco anyway. I'm not going to claim otherwise.
    Lannin and Whulfgar like this.
  18. Whulfgar Augur

    What changed your mind im curious?
  19. Zunnoab Augur

    Another guild member spoke to me about how important it was and how much some people put into being on exactly at the servers start. That and my "OMG WHAT IS THIS??!!" reaction wore off. We had scheduled a raid night on our normal "reserved for use if we need to" night, but didn't try to engage earlier than we normally would. The only change for the delay for us was doing an unusual Friday raid rather than an unusual Wednesday raid. The servers were down for about 2/3 of our normal raid time, but we went two hours later than usual once the servers came back up. I'm aware not everyone is able to do that kind of thing anymore though, so I do feel bad for everyone that had their plans sabotaged by what happened.

    Granted they decided to do a major patch right before the next unlock, sabotaging the entire point of the delay, but it was the thought that counted I suppose.

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