Everything is overtuned

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Regazozo, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. Horyuken Augur

    See my post above, mercs need to be given dot and spell shielding in the 65-70% range to be worth while.
  2. Gnomereaper Augur

    The hero's journey is a vital component to the storyline progression. Which means that the entry level content for the next expansion should not necessarily be the "super more end gamer hyper force team go." level difficulty. You have to have a power reset, otherwise complexity creep overtakes the game.

    The game is an aging player base and extending in layers and layers of complexity where there's not needed complexity and especially twitch factor responses also creates unease. Complexity creep is a problem in aging games, while complexity and difficulty belongs in the "end game" the raid game isn't always "end game" at the start of the expansion. The difficulty should ramp up in different content as well in scale complexity.

    I enjoyed Mata'muram, but I do not enjoy Kar'zok because it's too much running around and random. Citadel of Anguish was excellent design, everything had simplicity and difficulty until the large show of having a giant screen show the mastermind behind the entire grief and evil in the world. Then Matamuram showed you the meaning of Discord through his chaotic effects and requirements. He was a real end game boss.

    Really though, do I want to see Mata Muram clones or run around the circle cues on every mob? Not really. I wouldn't mind even a straight up classic NtoV fight every once in a while without or limited scripting. Of course you don't want Avatar of War designs for fights all the time, but it's just at some points fun to not have to you know. Well, just "raid" and play without having to run around.

    And the person who brought up Solteris (not the person quoted above), Solteris with Aprosis the Dark Confidant was only bad because he had too many Deathfists spawn and if you had too many of them spawn it became random whether you won or not. People weren't held up because of strats, they were held up because of a design mistake. Even after you beat the raid, you still had to spend an entire night attempting to win the gamble. I have better things to do with my time than deal with that. Now, after Aprosis the content got a lot more fun especially the final confrontation with Mayong and Solteris. And that's another problem to be very aware of too, random mechanics being too brutal for their own good too far down the boss. Not because of skill, but because of range.
    GoneFission and Pirlo like this.
  3. gotwar Gotcharms

    If you're planning a tuning pass, consider toning down some of the frequent AE damage effects the NPCs use.

    I'm going to get roasted for this, but if you're looking to make the content more accessible, the constant bombardment of AE damage is going to affect the casual player more than the melee damage. I'd probably even argue that if you cranked the melee damage down to "fierce kitten" levels, you'd still get difficulty complaints about the sometimes very unforgiving AEs or AE-like effects (virals, for example).

    FWIW I've been enjoying the difficulty, running with a pretty sub-optimal group of 5 (no merc), but I can understand why a lot of folks would be frustrated with some of the mechanics in the expansion.
    Yinla, Sancus, Endaar and 1 other person like this.
  4. Vdidar Augur

    All I can tell you is that as a casual player I made it to the fight fire mission and said screw TBL. In RoS I at least made it to end of empire and could still kill in all zones except one.
    Pirlo likes this.
  5. Ismel Augur

    Having tried and beaten 4 of of the 5 smoke trials I have no idea how a group geared group will do the same, I found some of them rather hard in a good group with max aa and RoS raid gear.
    I loath the knock backs they can ruin anything when the wrong person is at zone in 2 sec later.
    Barton, Pirlo and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  6. bigpapa Augur

    .

    I don't have any problem with tier 2 and specially tier 3 zone to be very hard,and most would probably agree but having tier one zones that hard , and blocked behind the trials is................

    why having dps check and other kind of mechanics in tier one zones { like ros was ( is ),} ?

    easy to make everyone happy, tier one zone = much easier than tier 2 ,and to have tier 3 zones brutal.

    if less geared or solo ( molo ) they should be able to play at least in a tier one zone at their pace .
    Caell, Pirlo and Yimin like this.
  7. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    They could make every mission with a super hard version that gave out the exact same rewards as the version tuned to the general game population but also gave an achievement. All the achievement would do is confirm you beat the super hard version. Most who could handle them would do those missions once then never select the hard version again. But it would at least remove the argument about people just wanting over tuned stuff for the challenge.

    All that being said I get people wanting to play content that lets them show their superior gaming skills. People want a challenge that lets them stand out from the crowd. They don't understand that at this point with expansions getting smaller and smaller we can't afford to have very much exclusionary content.

    I know we can't tune content to the lowest skilled players but like you said it has to be a little more forgiving. It's a balancing act keeping content interesting but in reach of enough of the EQ players to keep expansions being profitable.
    Caell and NeverPayForLag like this.
  8. Spellfire Augur

    Then group content should be reasonable difficulty as well.

    People did test group content in beta and they reported overtuned content. Those folks posting were both groupers and raiders from top guilds.

    Also, what strats do I develop when my merc dies in seconds? Get another account and box a cleric? :p
    Barton, Graves, Yimin and 1 other person like this.
  9. NeverPayForLag Augur

    What class? Shadowknight?

    Warrior has all defensive maxed and RoS gear. He can tank every named in RoS (couldn't test VP though). He tanks upto 4 RoS mobs at once. But in TBL one add is nearly the limit.

    If you have a Shadowknight then somehow they seem quite overpowered compared to a Warrior or you have EoK ultrarare gear or some trick others don't have, sorry...

    I tested TBL raid gear with a merc and he got killed regularly because he simply got stunned/mezzed and the mobs has beaten on the merc while nothing was possible to do. If your Enchanter and his pet makes the tanking while you are in a mezz/stun-dream then he must be quite beyond the usual.

    A normal player definitely cannot do that, sorry...
  10. FawnTemplar Augur

    The thing that is challenging about this thread is that there are so many people trying to generalize their personal experience of the game across everyone else. We have to stop doing that. One of the greatest things about this game is that it can accommodate varying levels of skill and play style. As raiders, our challenge comes in the form of raids and raid achievements. For groupers, their challenges are in the group game and we (raiders) just have to live with the fact that the group game is often going to be easier for us than the more casual groupers. Even within the group game there is significant variance in skill, so if you can tank Stratos just fine, that's great for you but not everyone can. Maybe your challenge comes later in content.

    Overall, the Devs have to find a way to make the game as accessible to as many people and that isn't an easy thing to do. I just think we should recognize that not everyone is going to experience the game the same as you do and be more understanding to each other and the Devs.
    Shanarias, Stiku, Pirlo and 2 others like this.
  11. Yimin Augur

    Mercs dying is what is bothering me the most , cause the Merc starts healing themselves , then the group starts dying ...

    YiMin
    Graves likes this.
  12. Gnomereaper Augur

    Yea, it reminds of the TBL content later on when you fought Anashti. The AE's are bit too much early on in the cycle than as compared to end game group. However, I'll disagree with the melee construct it needs to go down.
  13. took2summit11 Augur

    I have not experienced this, at all. I guess I am now happy that I have a paladin and necro, both of which pretty often spam group heals through AAs/passive :)
  14. NeverPayForLag Augur

    DEVS -> THAT IS THE ONE TO GO

    It is so easy. Hard version for the challengers, normal versions for the standard players/casuals.
    Every problem will be solved instantly(!)

    And casuals have a chance to even get progression done.
    I am missing that for RoS Missions too!
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    The more I think about it the more I like the idea of keeping the non instanced group game at a lower difficulty level and have each instanced mission have various difficulty levels. Maybe instead of just achievements once you complete all the top difficulty missions you get a big bag, unique mount or something of that nature. This way we could keep expansions within reach of the majority of players and yet challenge top raiders too. This would let DBG maximize expansion sales (in my opinion).

    And yeah I know some will still complain they can't get the big bags or mounts just as some will still complain about the game being too easy but I think we could keep the majority of players happy and buying expansions which is a win/win in my opinion.
    Caell, Stiku and Pirlo like this.
  16. Yimin Augur


    You had an Enc runeing and CC for you , you say youre a Pal and you had a merc healing you, so two healers , yes this sounds like easy content for the group player !

    YiMin
    Pirlo likes this.
  17. took2summit11 Augur

    I disagree completely. If Mount Everest had a staircase to the top on one side and a hard summit on the other side, do you really think the world would have cared if someone did the hard side?
  18. FawnTemplar Augur

    Lots of people would do hard mode missions. Especially if they had achievements linked to them. Many people LOVE hard content, especially end game raiders.

    Also, nobody would care about people getting to the top via the staircase. Common sense.
  19. took2summit11 Augur

    So what’s you’re issue exactly then? You are trying to beat current content progression with a pet, right? And can’t do it, so it’s overtuned?
  20. NeverPayForLag Augur

    I have the same setup. Druid spams Healnukes (target heals target), Cleric spams stun/nuke with heals. Every caster has an augment for healing the target when nuking. But honestly it is absolute beyond me how this will work through the whole Trials...

    Besides the first Trial I had bugged out - they ported us always out after the first kill.