Everquest Raiding - What could be better

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by SadDonkey, May 6, 2018.

  1. Allayna Augur

    GoD wasn’t beaten by anyone until OoW.

    We fill raids, we beat content, we run a list, if raids required only 24, 36, whatever number, it will have guilds at the top either splitting them, (some already do), or those guilds will start to break up because no one wants to ride pine 24/7.

    The two tiered loot system. Please continue this aspect. Hey new appscum xyz! Go ahead and loot diamonds from about 7 chests, grats you’re fully geared and can be evaluated on your talents without the, “omgz my gear sux” excuse. Plus, hey, who doesn’t like a cheap alt loot system.

    As to the specific raid drusella’s vault. We’ve had both, a drusella who took some coke and a drusella who moves like a slug since the recent changes.

    There are definitely raids that have move lag for players: Skyfire, T2-3, Cactiki all have considerably more lag than other raids.
  2. svann Augur

    I dont think it ever works to split a raid into 2 raid teams if the event isnt already on farm. One team always gets the best geared tanks to have more chance to beat the new content quicker, and the other team is the B team. Then the B team leaves to find a guild that has A team openings.
  3. Koryu Professional Roadkill

    I just want to stop seeing shadowed men being used in raids. Fighting invisible targets is dumb. Yes, you can make hotkeys for targeting and use the Extended Target Window and look for targeting rings, but it's still inconvenient to rely on these secondary indications.
  4. Muji Augur

    I was referring to events like circle of drakes or talendar or other various 12 man stuff. Those could easily be 24 man events. Were talking lesser loot here so guilds who do 54 man stuff wont be as interested in the loot, or do it for alts or when have timers on other raids.

    Yes, having 24man progression events along with 54 man progression events for the exact same loot wouldn't work, but i don't think anyone would be asking for that extreme. Were talking maybe 4 small non progression events for some form of lesser loot like raid augments or .5 gears or chase gear etc.
  5. Waring_McMarrin Augur



    Why would anyone want more non progression events when there are plenty of complaints that there is not enough progression based content?
  6. Axxius Augur

    This discussion brings up the worst memories: Tower of Discord (Hard Mode). I consider it the single worst design decision concerning raids in the history of EQ. A smaller raid with better loot. It almost killed our guild back then. A lot of good players chose to quit the game instead of having to sit out. I hope this never happens again. If the game becomes too small for 54-man raids, adjust the raid size down to 48 or w/e, but for all raids in the current content. Variable raid size is very bad.

    12-man 'raids' are missions. The gap between group and raid gear is already very small. There is no space for an 'in-between' tier of content (24-man). If it drops raid loot then it'll harm raiding guilds. If it drops group loot then what's the point? I don't think it's a worthy idea.
    Maedhros and Smokezz like this.
  7. Dantius New Member

    On the plus side, the more people get fed up with this, the more people will leave EQ and the less income DBG will have, sunset will come a lot sooner...
  8. Tiggold Augur

    I was equally disappointed in reading this thread only because I thought the title was Everquest Dating.

    /le sigh
  9. CrazyLarth Augur

    Hardcore Heritage: Sebilis

    From May 30, 2018 at 12:00 AM to Jun 27, 2018 at 11:59 PM

    I would not mind if they look at the
    The Reinforced Lair of Trakanon raid

    http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=8609

    and adding some ROS Raid Diamonds to it. They are .075 of ROS gear.
  10. Mulleteer Elder

    Honestly how many raid guilds are fielding 54 with no boxes. Are not most top end guilds still recruiting.
    Do you honestly believe more guilds will break because of too many vs too few.
  11. Mulleteer Elder

    Every year it gets tossed out its a summer thing. Isnt that it is predictable problem every year a design problem if guilds struggle with numbets every year for like 4 months.

    Give me one way it would hurt the game to have 2 choices for raid size. Say 54 and 36.

    Tone down the dps and hit points a bit for the lower raid. Reduce the visibles to one and non visible to one. Or have a slightly lower quailty of drop. Tradeskill drop quality


    Its a win win for everyone. It will maintain more subscribers.

    Hell with lower numbers some new guilds might even be created.

    12 guilds have beaten ros. On the generous side thats 900 mains. Thats about 140k in revenue. I am thinking this is not the main source of income.

    Nothing will benifit the long term survival of this game like reducing raid number requirements.

    What i dont understand is hardcore raiders have more invested in this game. Hell they probably have enough kronothat they are not paying anyways. I know i have enough krono. Yet they are the first to post a meme brushing off someones idea without posting a better solution.
    Daybreak has to be approaching the point when expansions are not profitable.
  12. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    Correct. And i still have the forum-whining about it in my eyes.

    As you said, some are already splitting their force to raid the "normal" version.
    Versions tuned for a lower number of participants would simply allow for guilds with lesser numbers (or simply lower DPS-figures) to still beat it at all.
    And guilds that break up have always been and will always be those that do NOT beat "blocking" events in what is deemed a "timely manner". (what exactly is a "timely manner" has changed over time too - back in my time it was usus for "lower guilds" to beat stuff years after, these days you are "done" as a guild when you are still struggling in last year's raids.)

    First, we do not call our apps "scum" or "trash" - and i for one would disband right away again if a guild would have assigned such "titles" in the guild tool because it's outright demeaning.
    Next, what you describe is exactly what guilds are doing now, whereas i said above something about "with consequences for the loot".

    I do not notice any "move lag" (or other "lag" ) in either Skyfire nor Cactiki.
    That said, i do not notice much "lag" in ST raids either (unless when chat-lag was an issue of course, but not dependant on the event). What i DO notice though is problems with auras and visibility and perhaps (hard to say) aura-borders, some of which are due to the zone geometry (stairs and "flat" auras underground for the higher surface for example). The latter is also - and especially - true for the SF raid and the meteor decals too.
  13. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    There were reasons why GoD wasn't beaten until OoW, the content was tuned for level 70 and was broken.

    GoD is the only expansion I have heard that devs were raiding regularly with a guild (Arch Overseers) to fix broken raids. Nothing like having beta on Live servers.

    Thankfully RoS isn't another GoD.
  14. p2aa Augur

    This raid was a joke when it was current. It has yet some loot, it's dropping slightly better gear than EoK raid stuff. No reason to add nearly RoS raid quality loot to this event. If you want RoS gear, raid in RoS.
    Allayna and Yinla like this.
  15. Tiggold Augur

    So to address you first two paragraphs: For months you've been banging your head on ST2 and your turn out declined. The expansion has only been out a few months so yeah, that makes sense. You said yourself you're a mid-tier raiding guild so it's not anything brand new to you to see some raiders stop showing up until the rest of you beat the content. It happens in all of these "tiers" of raiders. People start not showing up until the die-hards find a way to beat the content short-handed. Then they show back up make the content seem easier, because there's more people, and celebrate how "great this guild is!" People will blame it on summer and this and that, but this same crap happens all the time.

    You don't need to judge if ST2 is learnable, you know it is. Other guilds have beat it. You haven't, but others have. Will you be able to beat it with your 30 that are showing up? Idk. It's not killing the game though. Forward progress is killing what is left of this game. People who started out playing this from the beginning are getting older and the priorities are changing. The time they have as expendable is decreasing. Lack of marketing to generate new players is not doing anyone any good. One thing for sure though, is lack of quick resolution and poor tuning is NOT killing this game. If you've played this game from the beginning or somewhere in the middle then you have experienced problems all through the years and with multiple owners, devs, etc. - Same stuff, all the time, yet here we all are.

    I can understand being frustrated but what I dont understand and what makes me bothered is seeing this desperate cries for help in the form of "you've ruined the game for me and my friends" diatribes.
    Brohg and Maedhros like this.
  16. Allayna Augur

    Can we not ever have exact duplicates of raid gear drop in group game again. Chase loot that was an exact copy of raid gear in the current expansion....that’s what’s wrong. Now you have people who think they can raid, but still don’t maximize their class. They won’t put in the work to go to old content to max dicho, max hero’s aa’s, get the anguish bp, artisan’s prize, Rez stick from OOM, etc...

    They also won’t follow emotes, stay at the keys non-afk. But they’ll come here to complain that content is unbeatable.

    If you want raid gear, raid, why equal gear dropped in group setting I’ll never understand.

    To clarify, I’m not saying chase loot should go away, but it should lag by 1 expansion, ROS dropping EoK chase.
    Tiggold, Maedhros and High Voltage like this.
  17. Deillusional Augur

    To be honest, with the current state of the game at least for europe, euro recruitment pool is worse than ever. I would say keep the raid size as it is but tune for a lower amount of people in the raid - 48 or whatever. I realise it will make some raids easy but with the variable player base in the game it might benefit the game as a whole. Personally we spent way to long winning vault, for the first time (we did it prenerf - and we have won every week since). It is easy now, but I can see how hard it can be for other guilds or if they lack the classes to do the trap phases effectively.

    On a side note how do you get http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=128787 ? is it just a random drop on talendor's corpse?
  18. Triconix Augur

    Well, the title of this thread doesn't match the OP.

    Anyways, what I would like to see more in raids are individual emote checks that don't result in the entire raid getting penalized. I personally don't think it's fair to have people die due to another's mess up. Why should I be eating AEs if a person fails to pay attention? I shouldn't. Individual mechanics should be used to force people to be more responsive and proactive for their self-preservation and only their self-preservation.

    Individual emotes can also lead to subsequent results. Obviously, the preliminary result of individual emotes is the people die, but don't disrupt the entire raid. After this, this can lead to different outcomes. Either 1) the user ends up learning and getting better which helps the guild or 2) the user continues to struggle and it becomes quite obvious and the guild leadership can penalize the person by sitting them, or docking them dkp, or both. This also results in the raid becoming more efficient because you just cut out the weak link.
    Zhaunil_AB likes this.
  19. Sancus Augur

    I don't get this logic. You aren't playing a single player game, you're playing with 53 other people. If a tank doesn't establish aggro properly, DPS die due to the tank's mess up. If a healer doesn't heal properly, tanks/DPS/etc die due to the healer's mess up. If CC don't CC properly, numerous people die due to the CC's mess up. If DPS don't DPS properly, you probably all die because they messed up. You're constantly liable to die because other members of your raid screw up. Is that not "fair"?

    Raiding is entirely based on specialization and, as such, depending on others. I think it's fair to debate how much you should be dependent on others, but to not think it's fair for that dependency to exist is contradictory to everything that differentiates raiding from a single player game.

    Now, because that dependency exists in the absence of emotes, individual emotes would still indirectly contribute to you dying because other people messed up. In general, I think the devs should avoid one player being able to completely wipe the raid, or, at the very least, remove any mechanic like that after a few months. Beyond that, I think a mix of individual emotes and emotes that affect others is good; both serve slightly different functions and have their place in making raids more challenging and interesting.

    And I get that it can be frustrating. I raid on a Wizard in a low-tier guild that only semi-recently beat Kar`Zok. Getting constantly mana drained during a long fight as a Wizards really sucks, and there's nothing I personally can do about it. But I think it'll push that guild to resolve some of the difficulties they have in communication (and make less confusing GINA triggers tbh), which they otherwise wouldn't need to do. It's never going to be perfect given the players in that guild, but I don't think it's bad or unfair that there are direct ramifications on me if they don't follow emotes. I'd just like to avoid them being able to completely wipe the raid by failing one emote (assuming the raid wasn't close to wiping previously).
    EnchFWO likes this.
  20. Lianeb Augur

    I loved the second Arx one off raid that banished you from the zone if you failed two emotes


    We have seen it twice in 13 kills both times it was on Talendor’s corpse. Both times were before the revamp to the heroic chests. So I can’t say if it was moved to that chest or not.
    Maedhros likes this.