EQ suffers from what every other MMO suffers from. Unnecessary complexity.

The complexity is also the result of a much deeper problem: The MMO concept is broken. That did led to boxing and class swapping and many players want to test out all classes. They do no longer identify themselves with just one PC and one class like in the early years. Instead they do see their collection of PCs as exchangeable toons. But you are right, the ability systems are totally bloated. Skills + Alternative Abilities + melee disciplines + spells + clickies + procs + pets + tons of gear including augs and weapon collections. I also have to study and practice with those toons that I have not played since a few months or just weeks so there is a replay barrier as a negative factor.

Without the need for boxing it would be less problematic and the game more user friendly. I think that mercs could be better adjusted to compensate some of these problems including class balance. Three merc classes are just not enough and PC tanks and pet classes do benefit to much from them (healer merc) while they can be usless to the wizard and enchanter at some level ranges. Many PC classes do require a second box and sometimes also a second merc for being playable which does result in a trio or quartett. Individual mercs that are attuned to the PC class would help.

• Most DPS classes like the WIZ / ROG / BER do need a tank that could also heal: Like a paladin merc.
• Tank classes do need individual healer+DPS mercs: Like a druid merc.
• The cleric does need a tank+DPS merc: Like a monk. DRU and SHM are more or less fine with the current tank merc as they can heal and DPS. Maybe give the DRU a PAL merc instead of the warrior as their heals are a bit weak and they cannot slow. Basically the shaman as a slower should be the weakest healer and not the druid.

Complexity vs Simplicity is a balancing act, EQ has been on the far end of the fulcrum for a long time though. It's not just about the complexity of gameplay involved but the amount of information onscreen at any one time & also the processing demands of all those systems that make up the complex combat playstyles of each class.

Not only is the UI a bloated mess, not only is combat so processor intensive it slows down the game to an unacceptable degree during raids but the stat, AA & secondary stat system is so bloated you can loot a massive upgrade piece of gear & feel amost absolutely no difference has been made.
I don't agree at all with the "numbers are too big" idiocy that gets bandied around but the dilution of impact you feel when upgrading an item or getting a new ability simply no longer feels rewarding enough (or at all) and that's a very real & important factor in how the game keeps players coming back.

That visceral feel of getting better was among the most important hooks of any RPG or MMORPG, and it has been watered-down so much its at risk of disappearing entirely.

I'm not suggesting a vertical-power "Stat-Squish", but the game could definitely benefit from a review of the entire Stats, AA, Secondary Stats system & performing enough horizontal condensing to get ot back to where improvements to your character are noticeable again, be that a gear upgrade an AA point or new ability/spell.

Wish they trim down all the aa's so many of them got my rog to 120 and im lost on what the good aa's are.

Needless complexity and having to consider too many mechanics and systems is a serious barrier to entry for new players. The old Blizzard adage "easy to learn, hard to master" is something that all video game designers should try to emulate and it's a proven moneymaking strategy as well.

The famous Blizzard donut concept is pretty useful too. The newbie/solo experience players play on the outer ring of the donut. If they want to improve they join groups and move to the inner region of the donut with increased challenges and better loot. The inner section of the donut is where the raiders are. All 3 parts of the donut are like lanes of a highway: slow, middle, and passing lane. The player can choose which lane to drive on depending on their needs and how much time they have to devote to the MMO.

Much of the appeal of playing on TLP servers is that classes are very well-defined with a few core abilities. The simplicity is attractive to players, who can roll the class and start playing instead of having to read hours of theory crafting idea to figure out the right gear to buy, etc.

Minimalism or less is more is another applicable design philosophy that could help fix this problem. EverQuest2 is a prime example of the thoughtless design that includes far too many abilities. Lord of the Rings Online is seriously bloated like this as well.

Skuz is right about the UI being a bloated mess and that stats and AAs should be consolidated. But will the devs do anything about it?

The more I study the history of EverQuest the more I realize that many of the problems are attributable to rookie developers had no previous experience designing video games or designing MMOs. Many developer were once guides that were promoted to GMs, that were promoted to associate designers, and then lead designers and so on.

Another problem is there was no consistent vision. Due to chronic company dysfunction, SOE had an unusually high attrition rate, just look at how the credits radically changed from expansion to expansion. Every expansion had a new captain of the ship. New captains mean the ship is sailing to a new destination.

These forums will always be a place where people share their discontent because EverQuest as we know it today is full of a lot of design mistakes and expediency that are still negatively impacting players after all these years. It's not a bad thing to point out the problems, even if they are decades old. It shows the players still care and are passionate.

I'm just worried that the EQ horse is well out of the barn and is unsalvageable. I would hope that a future EQ might be the place were developers can take all the collective wisdom of 23 years, the good, the bad, and the ugly and put it to good use into a new version of EQ.

I get your points but Really it should be simple to complex not Complex to simple. Meaning the Game should be Made easy to play but hard to master. Besides are Daybreak Games Bring EQ to Cellphones I don't think Cell phone owners want 10000 Buttons for any game. I agree I really wish they would bring Vanguard back. Honey: How your New Cell phone game .. Player: I have 10000 buttons just for AA's how you think it is ouch. I need bigger Cellphone these buttons are tiny.

Really Like The 10 Buttons or the 14 Buttons and that is all you have there really is no need to go 24 or 36 Button that is over kill. Even FF14 as 24 but it somewhat works with Controller and sadly that one thing EQ Doesn't after 23 years.

I also used to support reduced complexity, but I think I have moved away from that position. The most avid EQ players are probably now in their 50s or older. They don't have the reflexes of the youth. What they do have is a great deal of knowledge about the game, and a collection of specific gear from old expansions that enables them to be superior to the new player. Take that away, and your primary customers become second class citizens to those with greater reflexes - probably not a good direction for the health of the game.

Not to mention our eyesight. Going to hd everything is so small.

This.

This is why I said Easy to play, Hard to master. to keep it so the hardcore can stay hardcore.

EQ would benefit from an overseer / supervisor council and that could be the duty of the senior devs but I would also take younger visionary people and players into it that are good in analyzing. The project often had a lack in guidance, management and long time strategy and the high employee fluctuation had more negative than positive aspects.

found myself reminiscing about Vanguard only just recently.
Agreed on the the simple, but amazingly effective combat system.

I came back to EQ for the complexity in its classes, spells, skills, AA, disciplines.

I do feel like the gear is maybe too complex, it's hard to figure out how to make and what heroic stats to go after, for me anyways.

I played a character I hadn't played in like 8 months a while ago.

There was this extra chest piece in my backpack. For the life of me I could not figure out why I had it. I knew I switched it out from time to time, but why. Was it due to the extra heroic +AGI on it, because of the clicky? But if I used it, why was there no aug in it?

Setting up the UI all over from scratch is time consuming too. It could take an hour or more just to figure out what everything does again, to set up all your AA, spells, potions, etc.

If you play EQ all the time, you kind of get in a rythm and this isn't a big deal. But for people who play other games, come back, or switch characters sporadically, this is overwhelming.

Never played Vanguard, but this is why I play WoW. I like the combat system. Not so “many” abilities you can’t figure out what they do, but complex enough in the fact that all the abilities tie into one another in one way or another. So it’s easy to learn, but the mastery comes from learning when and where and how to tie the abilities together.

HDex for melee
HStam for all else

This is true for any game where people play on and off and especially an on and off relationship with multiple characters.

PS, the chest piece was 100% for the clicky

I think you may be off track. The problem was not "rookie" developers. The problem was developing something radically new and then trying to keep pace with success and profits. The pace is not something developers dictate nor do they manage resources. That is a management thing. Some games were able to benefit from EQ's trailblazing.

Slight tangent on gear and I know I am likely in the minority, but I always felt aug system added unneeded complexity to the game. There are already plenty of equipment slots in EQ that have to be turned over. Its one thing to maybe have an aug slot in weapons and chest, for example. It is quite another to have multiple augs slots in every piece however. On top of that, then you had certain aug types or augs which could only go in certain equipment slots.

While I know I shouldn't care so much about them, I find it somewhat of a deterrent to return knowing I not only need to turn over the visible equip and jewelry, but also all those augs.

My other pet peeve when returning to a mothballed character are the hotkeys marked "Not found", or something like that. They remove an AA or an ability, which is fine, but now I don't remember what AA or clicky I had hotkeyed in that spot.

For a lot of the issues you mentioned, I keep notes in a spreadsheet, so I can do a quick refresher when hopping back to an old character. Sometimes it pays to be a packrat, even if it's just for notes

Yes the Augs are complex, needing different distillers is annoying.

I still don't know what the Purity augs actually do or what power source to use

Some of the people posting would think tic tac toe is "complex". Nothing in this game is complex, let's be real. Opacity to those not willing do delve deeper into SPA does not equal complex.