Encouraging Players to Play in New Content ASAP

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Battleaxe, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. Battleaxe Augur

    Other than experience adjustments designed to enforce
    https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/...ading-grinding-xp-in-the-darkened-sea.214449/
    "As we move into The Darkened Sea, we've made a few changes to ensure that adventuring in the newest content will be the best way to gain experience to advance their characters in both levels and AA points. Playing in the newest content should always be the most attractive, and demolishing content from several expansions ago should not be the fastest way to advance your character."

    it occurs to me that Daybreak can do other things to encourage players to enter new content asap.

    1. Don't put Rank I spells and disciplines on a vendor that sells them for pp. Sell them for latest expansion only currency. You want latest expansion power play in the latest expansion - don't just visit it to find a vendor, pick up your new spells/disciplines, and go back to last expansion's content.

    2. Earn level unlockers. Want level 101? Beat the tier 1 Mercenary progression.

    3. ???

    So, here's the idea for this thread - suggest ways that reward those players who choose an advance along the progression harder path more than those who choose a remain in their comfort zone but are rewarded (less, but still rewarded) for that choice too.
  2. Gumlakx Augur

    Sorry, my response would violate forum posting rules.
    Graves, Xulore, Nenton and 5 others like this.
  3. Stewgottz Augur

    Easy answer ... Just nerf all the xp from previous expansions once the player has reached lvl 101?

    By doing this the lastest expansion will have the greatest rewards for the risk (duh)
  4. ~Mills~ Augur

    Your first two ideas are actually good. But tuning and bottlenecks would need to be handled very carefully and time must be spent undoing the restrictions after the expansion much like alaran lang requirements for AA in VoA. Otherwise it would be mandatory that someone uses old content to level and you already claim this is bad design.

    What they shouldn't do is nerf prior xp once you get to a certain level to the degree they did with ROF and prior. If the decay from normal leveling isn't enough then slightly nudge it down more but don't totally remove it entirely.

    If the big selling points to HA's were they scale down and up forever but then they suddenly realized the scaling up forever might be an issue then cap the HA mob levels to the level cap of the expansion it was launched with. Don't waste time going back every year and retuning how the xp is given out from the task. Have its mobs decay over time as well or make it so that the mobs over the level cap from the expansion it launched with follow the stats of the new expansions mobs follow. IE if TDS mobs have 100% more hps and .15% more xp per mob then make it so a Dead Hills HA gotten by a group with 101+ toons have Dead Hills mobs with the same hps and xp return as the TDS mobs.

    What they shouldn't do is force peoples hands in regards to telling them how and where to play. Or expect the exodus to continue from lack of content.
    Yinla likes this.
  5. Battleaxe Augur

    3. Create an Ancient spell or discipline for every class that's not just a Rank IV but something not in their current repertoire yet consistent with it. Have that spell/discipline acquirable by completing group progression - a class based reward added to the rewards for completing an existing achievement. The quest spells, for example the SK Life Leech spell, were exciting when they were introduced.

    4. ???

    Surely y'all can come up with things consistent with the topic of this thread without rehashing
    "Playing in the newest content should always be the most attractive, and demolishing content from several expansions ago should not be the fastest way to advance your character." and old content experience more.
  6. silku Augur

    Wouldn't number 1 just benefit raiders more than groupers? It's my understanding that raid geared folks would be using rank 3 spells until they hit 105 and get new focuses anyway. The only person a rank 1 spell truly benefits is a group geared player. Why make it even harder for the group geared people, while not changing the difficult for raid geared people at all.. they already have it easy in group content anyway.
    noclue likes this.
  7. Battleaxe Augur

    Perhaps I don't understand you.

    Raiders wouldn't get Rk I spells any faster than non-raiders under the scheme I suggested unless you claim they can complete group currency missions sooner than non-raiders. I suggest that while raiders will complete level and needed to raid group requirements more quickly the 5 days a week they spend raiding at the start of expansions is time non-raiders can spend doing group currency providing missions.

    Rank III spells are acquired sufficiently slowly that many raiders eagerly seek out Rk II group dropped spells (despite the less time they have available to do group content).

    If anything that suggestion would provide a harsh set a fire under them motivation for raiders to do group currency missions early on where currently the impetus to do them is a lot less.
  8. Casidia Augur

    Well all i can say is doh, to the whole topic (not your post Battleaxe).
    Eq was at it's peak when several expansions' content was used by max level players...such as PoP + GoD + Omens + DoN + LDON + maybe i got something wrong but you get the idea.

    Obsoleting recent expansions fast is so counter productive, that's all i can say...mind boggling, whoever came up with these ideas. Need to get away from thinking like: what benefits who the most?
    And where should people be in the game (wtf, that's up to me to decide where i wanna go).
    Pretty darn sad.
    Wayylon and Xeladom like this.
  9. Battleaxe Augur

    PoTime proved that highly desireable items that retained their value much longer than they should have gives content longevity it should not have.

    GoD proved that 0 guilds succeeding in beating an expansion before the next expansion arrives is
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_Gates_of_Discord
    "John Smedley, President of Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) has described the release of this expansion as 'SOE's worst mistake in five years'."
    10ish guilds beating expansions before the next arrives is just as onerous to 90% of the raiding community even if its satisfying to 10ish guilds. This went on for years to SOE's detriment.

    LDoN demonstrated the attraction of overly generous low effort/high reward vending machine content - an error SOE repeated several times.

    Surely you have a suggestion? No? Okies.

    1. Don't put Rank I spells and disciplines on a vendor that sells them for pp. Sell them for latest expansion only currency. You want latest expansion power play in the latest expansion - don't just visit it to find a vendor, pick up your new spells/disciplines, and go back to last expansion's content.

    2. Earn level unlockers. Want level 101? Beat the tier 1 Mercenary progression.

    3. Create an Ancient spell or discipline for every class that's not just a Rank IV but something not in their current repertoire yet consistent with it. Have that spell/discipline acquirable by completing group progression - a class based reward added to the rewards for completing an existing achievement. The quest spells, for example the SK Life Leech spell, were exciting when they were introduced.

    4. ???
  10. Casidia Augur

    I won't get into a discussion with you about this, i know what i (+ friends) liked and could care less what Smed considers mistakes.

    And yea i do have a suggestion, and it's puzzling why not everyone has the same one...
    make good & fulfilling content (not related to items and progression only, or exp which is the last thing real players care about in the long run), and people will love it and enter new content cause they are curious without being "forced"...........
    Wayylon, noclue and Zujilli like this.
  11. Battleaxe Augur

    4. Insure new content is always a lot more attractive than remaining in previous content.

    (People can remain in adjusted to be inferior [if necessary] old content if they desire to - they aren't "forced" into new content. But, when the smoke clears new content should always be a lot more attractive than remaining in previous content. I agree.)

    5. ???

    It wasn't just Mr. Smedley. Read
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_Gates_of_Discord
    the Controversy section. Reflect upon

    "A SOE game developer confirmed that SOE designed Gates of Discord with level 70 in mind, but SOE did not include the planned tier cap increase from 65. This management mistake ensured that several critical points of the expansion were unbeatable by most players at that time, both for single groups and raids."

    I'm not suggesting that you can't hold and post a contrary view. You certainly can.
  12. silku Augur

    No, my point is this Battle: With your first idea you are indicating that it would make the new content attractive, because people would 'have' to do new content to get their spells. Yet, Raiders in particular don't 'need' the spells to level, where as groupers might. So you've set up a situation where Raiders will just go use their 'old' Tier 3 spells in older content to decimate it, to get to the next level faster, while groupers who are the only ones benefiting from Tier 1 spells anyway, are the ones penalized.
  13. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    The best model imo was RoF during that expansion, where doing the progression was essentially equivalent exp to mass slaughter. That way those that wanted to hit 2 birds with 1 stone and do progression could. Those wanted to grind could. Most people "happy".

    Also, encouraging everyone into the new exp only works if we get a decent chunk of content with variety for various play styles and difficulty. We haven't since CotF/resource cuts, and not sure we ever will again.
  14. silku Augur

    Something that just struck me as funny... grinding has been a part of games since as far back as I can remember. My friend bought dragon warrior on the Nintendo when it first came out. (1986ish?) I remember I played that game forever. Would die and have to reload etc. I came over to his house to see how he was doing one day. He was level 98 out of 99 and had never left the starting city.. He just walked around killing oozes. He did that till he was max level and then went through and decimated the game.

    Why? I thought it was the most boring thing on the planet. Why bother? Just go play it as it's intended. His response? This is fun for me. You play the way you want, I'll play the way I want. As my kids say in the current vernacular... "You do you, and I'll do me." Don't tell me what is fun and force me to play it your way, why? Because if I'm not having fun.. I ain't gonna play.
    Wayylon, Geroblue, Garshok and 2 others like this.
  15. Battleaxe Augur

    Group content is tuned with the capabilities of group players waken into account. I don't see that changing.

    A non-raider who isn't raiding 5 days a week can certainly spend that time leveling and acquiring group currency to purchase Rk I spells. They're advantaged.

    IF an advantaged non-raider does accomplish such a feat he's max level, max AA'd, potentially with key focii and key spells vs. a raider at max level, max AA, 105 focii but no 101-105 spells - as nattow a raider/non-raider gap as is going to be encountered.

    In my experience aggressive non raiders have hit max level, max AA, and end tier gear 1-3 months into expansions for years. I think once (Solteris) I had every slot with an endtier item in it by the end of the expansion.

    And btw, IF I completed the non-raid content faster than a typical non-raider by virtue of my gear I'd remind you my upgrades are chiefly found in raid content. For non-raiders it's not only their endgame it's their much more rewarding for them than for raiders endgame.

    Your raiders are advantaged in group content premise is flawed. We might be advantaged in the 100 yard dash portion we both do but the 26 mile portion we do and you do not is our real race sir.

    One of my son's friends likes sitting in PoK and chatting. She's not forced to do anything in EQ. She was last time I checked level 7. In a character advancement game where people advance by taking on increasingly difficult challenges she opted to play her way. Her privilege.

    I'm a little shocked (OK, I'm not surprised at all) by the paucity of ideas to make doing progression vs. lighting up trivial mobs have doing things the hardway rewarding. Now if I'd started a thread entitled "Ways Non-raiders should be able to acquire raid gear without raiding" we'd be flooded with ezmode suggestions.

    5. ???
  16. Tharzak Elder

    THIS THIS THIS
    Reverse these changes and let ME decide what I find fun and how I want play!
    Xulore, Wayylon, Geroblue and 2 others like this.
  17. Battleaxe Augur

    If I can't demolish content from several expansions ago and have that more rewarding than playing in current content...Orc1 4Evah!!!

    5. Have the first win of a group mission highly rewarding and reduce the rewards as your number of wins increases. New challenges should always be more rewarding than continuing to do something that has become trivialized by your mastery.

    6. ???

    Too difficult a challenge? At odds with killing Moss Snakes and having it be rewarded as if you were killing dragons??
  18. Pwnography Augur

    Battleaxe,

    While you're at it, can you brainstorm some ideas to keep players busy for the next nine months? Most raiders I know had everything completed within the first month. Hunters done by the second. Now what?

    Could we, perhaps, put pirates off the coast of Brother's Island with a long faction grind and a final reward of 'the Booty Hunter' title upon ally? How about turning Degmar into a city, like Chardok? I'd say a couple npcs and we're set to grind enough faction to live there. Its actually a cool spot. Why not throw a raid-level group island out off the coast of Thuliasaur for challenge. Insert novel achievement/reward for killing all the named there - Dinosaur Hat like the other animal hats from Hero's Forge.

    You gotta give them some ideas for the people that already did all their content two months ago and have no reason to log in aside from a raid night or to bash their heads out leveling the tear.
    Zujilli likes this.
  19. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I think this all was already being discussed in another thread. But EQ has always encouraged people to play in the latest content I saw no reason for the methods used before TDS to change. Although SOE obviously wanted people to play in CotF when TDS came out or they wouldn't have scaled the HAs to 105.
    Garshok likes this.
  20. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    \

    Raiders need far less time in group content because they fly through it.