Enchanters

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Deadlylover, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. Ninelder Augur

    They still have their niche, and in generally they are still "required" for one mission per expansion.

    That being said, Enchanters have been nerfed 3 years in a row, with nothing new or nothing scaled to compensate. We have been worse off every year than the year we were before. You might want to wait to see what they do to us in the next expansion before you wipe the dust off your enchanter. Perhaps spend the time working up a different class, to be on the safe side.
    Cailen likes this.
  2. Tucoh Augur

    I'm still leveling my enchanter. What kind of DPS do you think NET on a warrior or berserker puts out?
  3. Cailen Augur



    In early RoS before the dot nerf we were GODS and probably OP...….. but like always they way over nerfed us. In raids we are hands down the best caster DPS group ADPS there is.

    If you have been gone from the game awhile look for any of Gotcharms write ups on enc play they are always spot on good info and required reading for enc's in my guild.
  4. Vumad Cape Wearer


    Yes.

    Other classes DPS goes up when they go back in expansions because of resists, mitigation, misses and etc tied to level modifiers. ENC however are the only class that see a decrease in DPS when they go back in expansions. An ENC will put out less DPS in Alaris than they do in TBL given the TBL era, while all other classes will see increases in DPS in Alaris than they do in TBL given the TBL era, for example.

    Since our charm DPS is higher than our spell DPS, our primary DPS is fixed within an expansion. When new expansions launch, our DPS in the previous expansion remains mostly unchanged. It does of course increase some as compared to when that expansion was live, due to improved stats on the charm spell and etc, but ENC will always see lower DPS in past expansions as compared to the current expansion.

    So, in reality, we are very well balanced in current content when properly evaluating risk vs reward, but under powered relative to all other classes when revisiting "old" content.
  5. Lianeb Augur

    So when you charm a mob for DPS you only use the charmed mob for DPS?

    I think your argument here is pretty one sided if you are using charm as your sole means of DPS. If that was a restriction to doing older content i could agree with you....but it isn't
    yosco likes this.
  6. RPoo Augur

    ~2k dps for zerker - pulled up last nights raids and looked at their DD breakdown
  7. Mazame Augur

    Charm is not a chanters main DPS. many chanters don't even use charm other than a cc tool.
    You have dot's, nukes, and even a summon pet you can use when a charm pet is to low.
    You also have some of the best mod to caster dps so make sure your using them as well.

    if DPS from your charm pet is topping your casting dps then you need to re work your spell line up.

    now if your reverse charming killing then in lower zones just pull more mobs to kill your pet faster with out the fear because you take more when they hit you. so again reverse charming killing would be an improvement on old zones.

    The pro's of a charm pet in current content is that they tank like a beast. yes they can break and kill you but that the risk vs reward. it shouldn't be you main source of dps but more added dps to your casting and a tank for the mob to hit.
    Cailen and yosco like this.
  8. Cragzop Cranky Wizard


    That number isn't right. Should be probably an order of magnitude higher than that.

    I just NET3 my chanter with a conflagrant 1hp and he got 6k dps on a test dummy from it. I think you might have missed something during your raid parses.
    RPoo likes this.
  9. Vumad Cape Wearer

    What are you parsing in ash with a pheonix (or similar situation) pet vs your spell DPS? While XPing, not while burning.
  10. Bigstomp Augur

    Except we tend to choose friends/known quantities in the group game (at least my recent experiences), like I said above. Chanters are amazing. Or they just aren't.
    Cailen likes this.
  11. Bigstomp Augur


    Locking down 20 mobs at once is pretty powerful. (my OP comment - fairly common)
    Can sorta CC/rune/ect to support a group with adps but cannot lock things down with mez (my middle of the road comment - this is rare)
    Just a poor dps wizard/mage (content mez does not work on - fairly common)

    So content defines it.
    Chanters are either:
    Better than most classes (almost half the time)
    About what I'd call perfect (very rare)
    Weaker than most classes (almost half the time)

    Of course, good players are good players and will make due with what they have.
  12. RPoo Augur

    You're right, I missed cherry picking a small portion of the parse, so sorry!

    [IMG]
    Duder and kizant like this.
  13. enclee Augur

    Just pick a tank class, they’re incredibly powerful and make the game easy mode.
    Metanis likes this.
  14. Metanis Bad Company

    I still think the Enchanter DOT nerf was wayyyyyy overblown. In many raid events the chanter's spend a considerable amount of time doing CC and other utility work so they get a much shorter time to actually spend trying to do DPS. To both limit this DPS and severely reduce the mana recovery benefits of Mind Tempest was like a slap in the face to an absolutely essential class.
    Cailen likes this.
  15. Cailen Augur



    I swear all the melee have an audio trigger that fires when I hit my burns cuz I always get a tell for haste or net from some melee that suicided right then ;)
    Ninelder and Metanis like this.
  16. Dovhesi Elder

    Not only do I hate charming (whaaat a chanter that hates charming!?), in that you will absolutely never see me charm unless its required during a raid event, but I also effing despise pulling. I prefer to have someone, like maybe a monk (could be a little biased), bring about 15 or so mobs back to camp where I am waiting to throw out a beam (which would effectively be hard to do if you are the one pulling, unless you have a significant lead on the train of mobs to give you ample amount of time to make it back to camp, stop, turn around and face them before getting beat into the ground).

    Plus, if you are in a fast grinding group, as an enchanter you are probably going to run low on mana quick if you are DPS'ing, therefore I like to take advantage of every moment I can in between pulls to med up a bit. If I am pulling (which, again you will never see me do :p), I wouldn't be able to use that time to med, and if I'm medding, then the group isn't getting pulls. Maybe it's just me but...yea, someone else pull pls n thx.
    Qulas, RPoo, Cailen and 1 other person like this.
  17. kizant Augur

    NET is more useful to a Warrior or Zerker for the healing than the dps. It's just not a great buff for them when compared to better classes like Wizards.
    Brohg, RPoo, Kimbella and 1 other person like this.
  18. Vumad Cape Wearer


    I asked what you are parsing and didn't get a reply. Are you basing this on the "feel" or are you parsing it out and have factual information to back it up?

    My spell AAs and foci are maxed out, excluding quick damage, so slight grain of salt there.

    Yesterday in smoke charming spiders, mephits and phenoix, my charm pet was usually pacing my spell DPS.

    I was stacking constriction, strangulate, tempest and chain nuking with mindcleve, mind slash and poly. All of the above at Rk 2. I also have the raid chest foci so 9% on slash. I was using twincast aura with tash aura.

    My spell damage was peaking around 60k DPS. Obviously it was lower when I had to tash and slow, and almost non-existant when I had to CC. 50-55k was about the standard. My charm DPS only stopped when it broke, so no reduction during CC/debuff casts.

    My charm pets were putting out 30-60k DPS. 60k DPS seemed to be the peak with 50k DPS being much more common. No mages weapons or other buffs, other than NET, which was mostly used to reduce confusion with the group.

    My high points were pushing 120k DPS with my charm doing about 50% of it.

    120k DPS might seem like a lot since I was slightly beating out the druid and the bard, but neither are DPS classes and I was working much harder to do it. Also the warrior was killing it with 175k DPS and peaking at 225k DPS.

    None of that is burns. When I hit my burns for the name, the druid killed it, pushing me out of second place by a margin.

    I don't have my companion fury AA so I don't know what DPS the animations do properly equipped.

    Compare all of this to camping named in Scorched woods by myself over the last few days and my charm pet putting out closer to 20k DPS. A 30k DPS hit is pretty huge, when no other class sees a 25% loss in their output going back just 2 expansions.

    Again, I am NOT complaining about charm when moving back expansions. I still have a very capable animation and can still charm. This is not a complaint by any means. This is just a follow up on the remarks about how charming impacts our overall DPS.

    My point is just that we are well balanced. We under DPS all the DPS classes but can out DPS the support classes with much more risk. We could in theory CC 20 mobs but think of the risk of CCing that many. That's an extreme example and everyone probably died.

    If anything I would say that ENC are well balanced and druids are under powered. Why the druids can't charm the pheonix and spiders in TBL is an oversite in my opinion.

    I would like to see necros, druids and bard see charm changes. Charm is very well balanced risk/reward, and it's super fun. I'd love to see the people playing those classes have the chance to die, I mean have all the fun, too.
    RPoo likes this.
  19. Cailen Augur

    LoL at druids being under powered..... look at parses much?
    Spellfire and Sancus like this.
  20. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    I'm just a necro, but that logic doesn't make any sense. Your role is not always direct dps. It changes in many raids. There's a baseline for what every person on a raid should be doing, and due to those roles your damage output may be different.
    Sancus and RPoo like this.