Enchanter... what is your primary role on raids?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Maxxbuff1, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. Reval Augur

    Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave fun =D
  2. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    We cannot progress and keep the game great, if we hope to fly under the radar, not have positive growth and content that utilizes the abilities we signed up for. I love being an enchanter and want it to stay that way. Never should we be just scared to have the attention of developers. That in itself is not the hallmark of great members. With that being said, we all know what it is we do.... Having finished the expansion... it is time to give input for the next. That is what this is about. Not bashing each other nor hiding in the corner.
  3. Reval Augur

    Any healthy community has people going in both directions on this one. I remember opposition in the past when I suggested changes. They're good to have as a filter so only the better ideas get through, even if sometimes it seems like they can be rude about it.

    I have weighed in in the past towards up having greater dps when it seemed like we were 1/5 to 1/10th of a dps class on raids. With that level of dps I saw it as something that really hurt raids to have more than the bare minimum level of enchanters. There should be a price paid for the utilities of the class, and that price should purchase something worth having. The other half of my usual statement involved content being more challenging, so that enchanters would be wanted. I had in at least one point referenced the dps increase as a sort of "patch" to get more enchanters into the game so that they could then release content that does require 2 or 3 or even 4 enchanters on a raid, and to some degree I have to say it seems to have worked based on what I've seen since then. I see the increase in crowd control required in certain raids, and I'm glad to have helped to whatever degree I ended up helping.

    It does seem like the easier, and cooler route to just tell people that their ideas are bad, so I commend you for your bravery. My recommendation is to think towards something new. Remember compliant lurch? Remember when beguiler's was new to the game? Tools like that really made the game more fun because they were very new, and they gave people a sense of pride when they figured out what they thought to be the best way to use them. They also brought about and empowered a sense of community that stagnates between that sort of discovery. At this point, I would say our dps and adps is such that you probably really want more enchanters in a raid than just the bare minimum, which is what you want in that area.

    Maybe enchanters could use a *bit* more dps. If it were up to me, I would take the top tier dps like rogues, berserkers, wizards, for burst, and tune enchanters to do between 1/2 and 2/3 that dps for burst, and then do the same for sustained dps classes, so that they are an "ok" dps class. I would say we're basically there atm though.

    Outside of that, I would say a cool, somewhat gimmicky ability like lurch is what i would want for the class. Maybe have an aa that roots or mezzes an npc and has you switch places with that npc if the root or mez works, and has a very long range, or one that lets you change places with your pet. Some sort of displacement ability would be really neat to see. In comparison to the current state of other classes, I feel like in my eyes that would make the class "complete" for now. The only other classes to not really have a movement ability like hate step are clerics and maybe magicians.

    Give clerics something that has 600 range, coh's the cleric to a person, and heals them that can be used once every hour. Give mages the ability to reverse coh to a groupmate once every hour. Those would be cool, and as far as the hatestep clone bank goes, they have definitely accrued the interest for this. An ability like this might make pulling more fun for enchanters, and would be convenient for the other 2 classes as well.

    I doubt they have the resources to do this, but that's what I'd suggest. I left out the more resource intensive suggestions I have, and ones that I've made in the past like an aa to swap buffs with someone.
    Maxxbuff1 likes this.
  4. Axxius Augur

    The primary role of an Enchanter on a raid is Being Awesome at several things at once. :)

    Any Enchanter that defaults to just 1 role is not good at raiding.
    Caell, Sindaiann and RPoo like this.
  5. RPoo Every time I open my mouth I stuff my foot in it.

    too bad I can only like that once, axxius
  6. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    ??? Left field? Where up here did anyone say 1 role? I even broke it out by percentage.

    That is exactly what I am trying to prevent. I don't like it being as high as it is on nuking. This is about the future and progression to not resort to one thing. If there are no mobs to cc, none dead to buff, and Dichotomic is once a minute... the math is simple.
  7. Blurred_Memories Augur

    i see nothing wrong in making content require enchanter(s), why should clerics / tanks have all the glory? though the only way i see it possible is if you require charming of a mob that's one level under max player level, or requiring ae stuns. everything else can be done by somebody else.

    to the original poster though, you left out boosting caster group dps... unless you were including that in buffs, which still doesnt include auras.... or does it?

    as for cc in this xpac? ae stun in hate, fear, and akapan!!!

    only progression raid i get to mez on though is granus.

    zero charming.
  8. Reval Augur

    They can also make content that doesn't require enchanters, but that enchanters are best for. I don't see an issue with that. Say something that takes 1-2 enchanters but 3-4 bards... Every raid is going to have an enchanter. I haven't seen a raid without a bard+ in years.
    Caell likes this.
  9. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    [quote="to the original poster though, you left out boosting caster group dps... unless you were including that in buffs, which still doesnt include auras.... or does it?

    as for cc in this xpac? ae stun in hate, fear, and akapan!!!

    only progression raid i get to mez on though is granus.

    zero charming.[/quote]

    You can charm the ghouls on High Bokon.

    I didn't leave out the boost caster dps. I counted the casting of NET, Dichotomic, the usual. They do not add up to much.. I grouped them all in the terms of buffs.

    I try to have 3 enchanters on raids, no matter the raid, sometimes we'll squeeze in a 4th. Those melee want their NET.... and with 75sec recast, it takes a bit.
  10. Brohg Augur


    This is, in my estimation, downplaying them enough to qualify as "wrong".
    Sindaiann and Sancus like this.
  11. Brohg Augur

    Just ran 30minutes, NET rk1 from my shabby bot, cast on warrior so shabby crits, 950dps mainhand only. 45s cooldown yes, but 15m duration only needing 2m or so of that to beat casting a random nuke outside discs?

    Another 30mins on rogue : 1700dps, so barely more than a minute on them.

    Bard, with dual wield and better crit AA like bst/rng woulf have: 2750dps from NET.

    I expect the impact of Twincast Aura and potential boosts from burns to be appropriately juicy, should rangers or bst end up grouped with you as was brought up in this other thread.
  12. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    It is not downplaying it. It is simple numbers. On a raid, it doesn't matter how much you boost the dps... with an ability. They are buffs, like it or not...that is the fact. Also they are only a small percentage of the total casts. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF CASTS on a raid are not buffs, mezzes, stuns, nor charms.... You guys keep reading things that were never written.

    In regards to the ranger point...my best friend ranger parse a lot higher when he has mana, he is oom in under a minute, but that is just his preference I guess. Somehow he is a very good one.
  13. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    Do they appear in the "buff" window? Do they appear in the "Song" window? Do they help? Then reading comprehension says they are buffs.
  14. Vdidar Augur

    Are you really wanting capable enchanters to get in here and tell you how good they are? They won't because they don't want to be hit with the nerf bat again. Enchanters are incredibly powerful so I just don't get why your whining so much.
    RPoo likes this.
  15. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    Where is there any whining? I wish you guys could read. This is a maintaining our role and moving forward. Representation with DB developers. There is not a single aspect of the game that I do not attempt to master... so capable enchanter... we are all about the same.

    On this subject, I will go toe to toe with anyone, because I actually care about my class and its role.
  16. Vdidar Augur

    I guess your the hold out on the idea that it's all moving towards one uniform class. Closer and closer every patch. Good luck on your crusade. Daegun is the only one man crusade that I've seen get done what he was after.
  17. Silv Augur

    As I already mentioned, the only thing this thread will result in is in-fighting and dev nerfs. You guys should really know better by now.
    Vdidar likes this.
  18. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    I post threads like this because I do not think we have any representation with DB at this time. We aren't that powerful like we were a year ago.

    If I didn't value each one of your opinions, I'd not post here at all. I have far better things to do, than try to create fights or anything like that. I do not come here often.

    I want to see more content such as what we are in Hate. In that zone, we are enchanters... we ae stun, ae mez, debuff, etc... and do a little damage, all in all are major cc in our raid setups on Cazic for the 2 forces that I am part of. That is ever so short lived, since that is the one event that we have the capacity to be what we were built for. While it may not need to be to that extent, it would be great to have that type of design progress in the future.
  19. Brohg Augur

    Done Stem the Tide yet, Maxxbuff1? Grannus the Cleansing Steam, High Bokon Boromas? even Damsel of Decay, though that's not specifically mezzing. CC is critical in a higher proportion of TBM raids than any of the last ... 3? 4? 6 expansions? There's a lot of slush in the definition of critical, obviously.

    It's unfortunate that you don't enjoy the other Enchanter strength centers as much, but Enchanters are very strong right now.
  20. Silv Augur

    Thank you.

    So seriously people... mainly you Maxx- stop talking. I don't know if you keep up with the other class forums or the vet forum but the more and more you keep going at this the worse it is going to get. I'm all about sharing info and opinions but if you wanna do it then make Ench club like they had for Necro club. Otherwise you will regret it. I PROMISE.

    Edit: And just as a side note - no, there are currently no crazy Ench sploits [I'm aware of] but we ARE in a good place so this type of post almost always winds up negative - if not from the players but from the dev attention and subsequent changes that follow. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.
    Vdidar likes this.

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