Enchanter Qs

Discussion in 'Casters' started by fransisco, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. fransisco Augur

    Couple questions for the other enchanters out there:

    1. Does any one get use out of Tears of Visius? I havn't tried using any of this line for years. Do many/any mobs have mana for this to work?

    2. Does anyone cast Mana Reciprocation directly on someone instead of just using the aura?
    Seems like a bother to recast it every 30 seconds since it only has 20 charges (hello twincast)

    3. Chromatic Blink - does anyone get milage out of this?

    4. Brimstone Resolution. This confuses me. A weaker rune that has no peridot cost. Is there a reason this line exists

    5. Soothing Words AA - which reduces the mobs agro against its target. I guess if your quick to click it before the tank gets its back. But is it dangerous since you might screw the tank on agro when it lands?
    Maxxbuff1 likes this.
  2. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    I cannot speak for others, but it seems that some of our abilities were developed by individuals that have very little understanding of the class.

    Tears of Visius - I gave up on trying to find a situation where it would be useful. So no, I do not use it.

    Mana Reciprocation - I only use the aura, our raids are setup to where the caster groups have an enchanter and if I happen to be out of a caster group for whatever reason, they are covered anyway. This is a situation where I'd target a caster group and give them my 3rd spire, IOG, and chromatic haze (alas, that is no more)

    Brimstone Resolution - Again, I have tried for so long, but gave up on trying to find a situation where it fits.

    Chromatic blink - I do not see the need to place a rune on the tank using this spell, they have so many HP and defenses. I'd rather use a higher dmg spell and get it dead faster.

    Soothing words - Yes, I use it out of habit. When a cleric turn undead, a magician turn summon, or I am in a pickup group and the tank sucks, i'll use it. However, I think it may have been broken for the past year, because they do not seem to get any lower on the aggro meter.
    gotwar likes this.
  3. gotwar Gotcharms

    Works great in duels. Other than that, no.

    The "spell" version is objectively "better" than the aura, in that it gives 20 counters instead of the aura's 6 (every 3 ticks). A Wizard twincasting on full burns can get a huge amount of mileage out of this. However, despite Kizant's repeated requests, I've never actively used it on a raid - maintaining it is too time consuming (for me) and I'm not even sure its worth the loss in cast time of my own spells (since I'd be removing a nuke from my weave in order to cast the spell on a Wizard). I just use the aura.

    That being said, the math on it looked really attractive, but there's no way to know if that was sneaky Wizard Kizant raid math, or if that's the way it actually works out, because I haven't gotten the opportunity to try it in a real situation.

    Edit: The recast is 15 seconds on the spell when fully AA'd.

    No this is useless, as are most nukes that don't start with "Mind" or sound like something a sith lord would use to crush his subordinates.

    This is also useless.

    Situational at best. Arcane whisper is more reliable if you're talking about aggro aimed at you. You might be able to save a full-burn Beastlord if you have a bad tank and are quick on the trigger with a well-timed soothing words, but it's doubtful. 30k hate is not that much. One step above useless, or even detrimental if you futz it up.
    IblisTheMage and High Voltage like this.
  4. fransisco Augur

  5. kizant Augur

    The single target Mana Reciprocation has a 4 minute duration. Great enchanters buff Wizards with it ~ 1 or 2 minutes before each event. I save a buff slot for it every raid, right next to my slot for DI but I never see it. :(
  6. gotwar Gotcharms

    Sancus likes this.
  7. Glandga Journeyman

    I'm using Chromatic Blink all the time. It depends of your playing style ;)
  8. kizant Augur

    When I burn at the start and have auspice MR procs do like 79k on average. Do that 14 extra times per EOK event and it seriously adds up. I think the math says it all.

    79,798 x 14 x 8 = 8,937,376
    8,937,376 ÷ ~5000s = 1.787k DPS for every Wizard!!!
    gotwar likes this.
  9. gotwar Gotcharms

    ^You'd have an easier time convincing your Enchanters if you took it as a per-cast thing.

    "If you guys replace one Mindcleave/Drown every other weave, I'll get ~1.2 million+ damage out of that cast! That's more than your mighty nuke will achieve. Also you are wonderful and all the ladies/men love you."

    Since you're already using fuzzy math, you might as well make that fuzzy math sound sexy!
  10. fransisco Augur

    1. Do mana recurrsion procs get all the focuses/crits of a nuke?
    2. Do dot casts (that don't have a initial dd) or ticks proc it?
  11. gotwar Gotcharms

    1. They get all the focuses/crits of a proc, but not a nuke.
    2. Yes.
    Sancus likes this.
  12. Brohg Augur

    Targeting rangers & beastlords & SKs & Paladins with Mana Recip is also a thing. Not quite the output of targeting a disced-up wizard, but the total damage still beats a Poly nuke by a mile. I wouldn't advise skipping Mindsundercleaves, those trigger Alliance besides anything else.
  13. Maxxbuff1 Elder

    So with the math of MR, I see numbers as if they were in a vacuum. However, is it worth it to not cast your own damaging spells to keep this up on wizards, mages, rangers, sk's, etc. Basically, are the MR single cast better than MR aura + the enchanter's dps (not that our dps would be completely sacrificed, but could be significantly reduced in our number of casts, also with us casting less, dmg spells = less gift of hazy thoughts)
  14. gotwar Gotcharms

    ^it'd probably only be worth casting on a Wizard. Could maybe make arguments for Mages in RoS too, I think.

    It's also worth pointing out that, due to the long(ish) recast and relatively low number of counters, keeping this up on more than 1 character per Enchanter isn't realistic. So it'd naturally go to your strongest WIz/Mage on a per-Enchanter basis.

    You'd also need to have some awareness of when those players are under a Twincast proc, or it wouldn't really be worth it. Similarly, the players who receive it would need to be aware that it's active to take full advantage.

    The idea here being that in order for the "missing nuke" trade-off to be worth it, enough Mana Reciprocation (spell) procs need to go off to make the additional counters do more damage than a single Enchanter nuke cast. Using Kiz's base ~80k number, you'd need the character you casted it on to consume ~10 counters within 3 ticks (6 counters per 3 ticks on Aura. Using a "best case, no ITC average" Enchanter Mindcleave # of 300k damage, 4 additional counters = 320k damage). This number stays about the same in RoS, when Mindcleave will get dropped from most Enchanter weaves.

    Even then, 10 counters in 18 seconds is what's needed to barely break even on the cast. Realistically you'd need to eat all 20 counters (for a positive tradeoff of +500k ish) for this to be worth it. This isn't accounting for the potential loss of GoHT procs. Someone with a bigger brain than me can do the math on that.

    It's effectiveness is probably increased in that sweet spot after Enchanter burns fade, where Wizards are still going.

    I can count the number of Wizards I'd trust to make that worth it on one hand.

    Casting this on an SK/Beastlord/Ranger would be "worth it" in the sense that you'd squeeze a little more damage out of those 20 counters than you would from a Mindcleave cast.

    On a Beastlord with ~1100 spell damage, I'm seeing crits of ~20k on mana recip procs. If every single one of these crit, you'd get +100k damage over Mindcleave. If 6-7 failed to crit, you'd lose DPS. This might be slightly different for Rangers or SK's if they have a spell foci disc that effects mana reicp procs. Could argue it has a higher chance of "worth it!" factor when everything wears off the Enchanter and we're just running on sustain.

    tl;dr - Can be worth casting on top-tier Wizards. Tiny increase if cast on Hybrids and everything goes peachy. Requires extra awareness from the Enchanter in either scenario to take full advantage of. Potential to miss out on GoHT proc (Thx, EQrng). I've still never used it, but would try it on a Wizard for science if bribed.
    Maxxbuff1 likes this.
  15. Sancus Augur

    Clearly I have to step up my bull math game.
  16. kizant Augur

    Wow I can't believe this topic was taken so seriously. If I were an enc I'd use it on myself for a droga burn and that's about it.
  17. Brohg Augur

    In-group, single casting MR during a battle is going to be a large pain in the butt for not much gain. Loading up the wiz/mag/nec (and yourself?) pre-event while you're also spreading NETs? That's a thing. Using single MR during a battle to hit folks not grouped with any enchanter? That's a thing. Still a bother, but higher gain.

    You'd only not-cast your worst nuke to be single-MRing. You keep on Sundering on cooldown, Mindstorming & Dicho-Cleave-Drowning. You just slip in MR when you're not NETing between all that. If you're pushing it. It's a lot to manage.
    Maxxbuff1 likes this.
  18. fransisco Augur

    aka WAY more trouble than its worth
  19. gotwar Gotcharms

    I recommend nudes.

    ^not a team player.
  20. Derd Augur

    What's a net? And how do you convince chanters they are dps? Ours avg 25 to 40 k on hits like droga.