Enchanters are the stars of the groups they are in, so a certain type of person expects that they should also be the stars of the raids they attend. This is clearly not the case, but it doesn't stop the whining.
Why is someone always wrong? Can 2 people be right at the same time? Can we agree enchanters are pretty awesome when fully utilized, but yet also agree DPG has made life not nearly as fun as it used to be for enchanter mains? Both can exist at the same time, and I would think there are quite a few classes who feel the same way. Is there a better player out there who could come here and tell me all that I'm doing wrong and say the problem is me and not the game? Sure, always will be. As was stated before, EQ is adaptable to many play styles which is great, but it doesn't mean someone is wrong for wanting to play their class a different way and being upset that DPG makes it more difficult to do that.
I used a Cleric merc and was able to do all of tier 1 CoV quests. I could very riskily do tier 2 CoV, but it wasn't worth it. I could do tier 2 ToV quests in Kael Drakkel as well! (The other zones were cake since the non-rares could be mezzed, for the most part). It's not easy to do, and it takes longer than other classes, but it is possible. Unfortunately with CoV there's no real reason to do the tier 2 content beyond what is needed for the progression spell, so you're not ultimately missing much. As others have said, we really shine when working with other classes, because as we've been nerfed in one area, we've been put into an adps-centric position, meant to boost the damage output of other classes. No longer are we the solopwnmobile class of Classic with charm (much to my chagrin).
top tier pullers: Every class can pull. In times, when it was necessary to pull singles and park mobs in line to be handled, this was really like you say. Taken away the capability to CC mobs due to immunity to all kinds of CC chanters have, except root, pulling isnt much different than all other classes do. Additional, nobody pulls singles these days, this is considerable slow and ineffective. Crowd control: Most mobs are immune to mesmerize. Almost all mobs are completely immune to stuns. ToV and CoV tier2 and higher almost all mobs are immune to blurrs. So you can root them off. Almost all calsses can do that. Slow: many classes have slow. Ours is not the best and will be overwritten by SHM and BST slows, which are far more effective, and in case of undead mobs, necro slow is equal or better, but necros do about 10 times of your DPS as enchanter. Massive Caster ADPS: buffing. the only thing we are good for. Brought to the point: You have evrey 7-9 minutes a 90 sec DPS boost (while yard trash mobs fall in less than 12 seconds quite to use at all). Bards have ongoingly boost and much higher mana regen and supports not only casters but ALL classes. Reasonable DPS: You havent played a chanter, right? Our DPS is with raidgear limited to: In raid/group normal fight mode: 250-300K DPS. In burst fights with ALL ADPS skilsl running: 400-500K DPS. Mage: 1,2 Mio DPS Necro: 1,8+ Mio DPS Beast: 1,3 Mio DPS The only way to reach 400K+ DPS is to dot more than one mob and keep them up parallely. Coalition Nukes i manage to hit for almost 3.2 Mio. Lucky Crit Pulmonary Grip: 3.7 Mio. Lucky Crit Dec. Consgtrict: 3.4 Mio. Necros Coalition crits in Dots hit up 14 Mio. These are actual parse values from raids during the past 5 weeks. My toon is my passion. I play 95% my Enc. I dont have other toons i play. Im not a boxer, because im not going to pay for 5 accounts to see the content im paying for. I do understand the class enchanter. But you are talking about things you havent experienced. Those things you list up here are due when it would be like 2012. But it is 2021. We have lost almost all our unique abilities and those left are reduced to content from 2018 and earlier. This isnt complaining. It is sheer disappointment, or do you think i like to be bound at PoK bank doing tradeskills for guildies and buff them on request, omn a toon almost maxed out, with a unique title that only my toon has gotten. I am proud of my toon, i LOVE enchanters and will not change to another class because some marketing idiot thinks it is a good idea to make everyone have 10 accounts to be able to play in current content. Boxers are just wallet warriors to which i dont belong, exploited by DB to pay 5 times monthly fee to have access to the current content you have purchased. It doesnt make sense for me personally to play on 2 computers parallely with 6 paid accounts at the same time with illegal tools (like all boxers use) to be able to play in the content i have just purchased for an additional price also 6 times. I regret to have pre-ordered an expansion in 2021 i can earliest access molo in 2023 when level is increased to 125.
In fact. Necros are THE class if there is one. They are far overpowered and have all abilities of all classes. I wish i could run a mission in TBL molo, while i see Necros moloing Zlandicar mission. As enchanter you have to simply wait until someone is desperate enough to throw a TA for you. Groups? I think my last random group i had, phew, years ago. In guild i get a slot in a boxers group if im lucky like 2 times a month. Im tired of GD blueish 110-113 mobs moloing until a named spawns, which then forces you to find a new spot or hope that some wallet warrior comes by with his 100$permonthboxarmy and slays it. But, tbh, it is impressive to see a necro cast 14 spells in like 3 seconds and then watch him FD while the mobs runs down in 20% steps. As Enchanter you need 20 times longer for a non named blue yard trash mob level 112 than a necro needs for a 116 named. I am conviced, that Necros molo Zlandicar in HM CoV quicker than enchanter can handle a 113 yard trash mob in GD, which has 20% of the HP of Zlandicar, if at all that much.
Ah yes, Important to mention. Enchanters have gotten a buff which mesmerizes/stuns the mob, when it hits you. THAT was the solution of the devs to soften the charm nerf. They simply have forgotten in that, 90% of Mobs in ToV and CoV and of course even more than 90% in ToL are immun to any form of stun or mesmerize This was the "gift" to enchanters. Useless one, but it was for free and with good intention. Just shows, that enchanters are as dead as wizards. Thanks to devs we are living in a world in which a pure solo class like a necro has more buffs and benefits for a group than a pure buffmule. Am sure most of devs play a necro or SK. Obviously none of them ever has tried an enchanter or wizard. And seriously: Wizards require much more attention than enchanters do. They havent gotten anything new since AoE snare in PoP times. Enchanters got something new in the times like Compliant Lurch, which was really useful and unique. But was screwed as "overpowered" and kicked into trashcan. You still can "move" mobs, but this stops at level 99, on which you dont need that ability at all. I forgot to mention Punt-Nerf. Our punt abilities have been reduced from 100 points distance to 25. Means, you cannot punt a mob out of melee range. Means, due to immunity to blurr, that mobs dont forget you. This is the same for all ablities which blurr mobs: Mesmerize (ff you can find a mob vulnerable to mesmerize that is) doesnt blurr anymore. Your passive stun-when-hit AA doesnt work anymore due to immunity to stuns and blurr doesnt work either, due to immunity. Yaur devisers ward has the same restrictions. Your banisment rune description says: hurrls mob away from you. 25 points. You need at least 3 punts with 6 seconds recast to punt a mob out of melee range. 18 seconds! Thats longer than a necro requires to kill it molo. So, most of the superexpensive AAs which are connected to any form of CC (mersmerize, stun, blurr) are just for content from before 2018. Past 2018 contnet it is a pure question of patience to identify the few 10 mobs on the whole expansion you can use at last 1 CC ability. Or more straight: If you look for a class that is bound to play with groups, has no real benefit but existence out of nostalgia, cant do much alone and has a lot of useless buffs like illusions - go for Enchanter. Basically the immunity takes away most of our abilities, aa and spells completely. I have to admit, i agree with the statements from above: TAs until 115, thern go silver and park it as buffmule at bank, in lobby. Much better: Create a necro, and you are level 50 within 3 - 4 hours if you go slow. Then you have got the basics of a necro: sent pet, dot, FD and you are ready that you can purchase heroic character and within 2 days you are max level. And a few weeks, if you are not a boxer, to be maxed out with AA. Only bad thing, even if on 2 accounts you cant give anything as enchanter to support the necro. All you can do as chanter is worse than what he can do himselves. In forms of DPS a necro can out-DPS any 115 Chanter when he is level 105. Nuff said?
I guess at the end of the day it all depends on your play style and if you are solo/molo, boxing, grouping, raiding, etc. I am not sure which zones you are referring to where CC is not a viable option, but for general progression in ToV including working the Rallos Zek earring I haven't run in to a zone where CC is an issue (full disclosure I am only on step 3 of the Rallos earring with all ToV group missions done and merc/partisan done up to ToFS). As far as pulling singles yes it is slower, however using CC you can pull groups of mobs and CC them at camp so the grinding is nonstop. I was not aware of BST slows being better than Enchanter, can you elaborate on which spell/ability this is? Also the Enchanter slow provides Somnolence which reduces your target's accuracy by 25% for 2 minutes. I don't run a Shaman so I am unaware of what they provide. This is dependent on group composition, if you have more melee then yes a Bard is the way to go. I do not raid but I can't imagine a caster DPS group would run without an Enchanter. I am ToV TS geared, no raid gear, still working through my heroic AA's etc, no chase loot, so I would consider my Enchanter modestly equipped at best and I can put out 600k+ DPS on a single target burn mission like Griklor or Zlandicar, I would assume a fully geared Enchanter could squeak out a bit more than that. For the mage numbers listed above were they grouped with an Enchanter? Right now full group my burns are about 2.5M so 600k from the Enchanter is reasonable to me, but this is from the viewpoint of someone who exclusively groups.
Havent played griklor more than 3 times in group - AB are mostly boxers and groups are more or less non-existent. I have raided it more often than i did group content. I mean, that content is stone old with 2 years, there is nothing of interest in drops and with currency it is the same. In raid the benefit of drops is a few HP more which is why my guild still runs it (we are new in raiding), the focus on the raid gear is not very good with a wide-spread percentage range (85-120%). In my guild we have several enchanters. I land in the parses in midfield, higher than the other chanters. I have read parses from top raid guilds and seen the best ranked enchanters on AB in group content, but i have not seen any parse from an enchanter aove of 565K (achieved in a Zlandi raid burn with druid and bard in group). If you could share HOW to get over 600K this would be enlightening for many Chanter fellas here, including myselves. Do you have an actual parse with that values? I would die to get hands on and analyse it. EDIT: I beleive that the Enchanters Channel on Discord (run by Rexa, enchanter from a top raiding guild) would also appreciate this information. According to the discussions there even 500K DPS sustained over 4-5 minutes is outstanding for an ENC. I have seen parses from there with even 1million DPS from Chanters, when time is short enough to have a statistical impact from Coalition chains. Yet, im willing to improve I WANT to sdee these numbers as well
In era could be burned down in ~30s, so take their 600k DPS number with a grain of salt. Tanks and DPS classes don't really need CC anymore, just pop discs and roll. Slows really don't matter anymore and Tank Belts are good enough. It's just the way of the modern game.
I can grab some parse info when I am back at the house, but as mentioned in the post above these are pretty short term DPS numbers, Griklor is around 50s or so, and Zlandicar is 110s. When looking at a 4-5 minute encounter there is no way I could keep the DPS would keep at those levels. Again I am group content only so it is hard to compare with raid and I'm sure my numbers won't look very impressive taking that in to consideration. I can guarantee my setup is nothing special for an Enchanter, and I am sure there is room to improve but I will toss it up here for a discussion when I get a chance.
Everything in Kael is immune to mezz. We can stun the wolves, but not the giants. I think everything can be rooted and blurred, except rare mobs, of course. I could be misremembering, but I think there's one floor in ToFS where we can't mezz. Velketor's also has some mobs that are immune to a variety of crowd control abilities. In CoV, Temple of Veeshan has all mezz-immune mobs. I think most can be rooted, but I haven't found a great root solution for enchanters. The other T2 zones have a mix of mezzable and mezz-immune mobs. That is impressive. I was just looking at some of my Zlandicar parses. My enchanter burn dps ranged from 460k to 590k, although scaled dps was never higher than 500k. This was also with 100% uptime on wizard's vortex. Without that, I expect my enchanter's dps would have been quite a bit lower.
Zlandicar parse from the other night: #6 is my pet so I guess technically that can be added to the total. As you can see from the group comp I have ADPS from the Druid and Ranger, my casting order is as follows: Pre-engage: Restless Focus Improved Twincast Engaged: Proclamation of Tashan Slowing Helix Mental Contortion Composite Reinforcement (rk1) IoG Mindrift CH Cerebral Assault (Chest Click) Pulmonary Grip Mind Coil Forceful Rejuvenation Composite Reinforcement Mindrift *Once CH wears off or shortly after I pop Spire of Enchantment Calculated Insanity Focus Arcanum Pulmonary Grip Pulmonary Grip Mindrift Pulmonary Grip Pulmonary Grip I think that covers it, I also did mess up there casting a Neutralizing Wave by accident while trying to click Pulmonary Grip.
@Camou Just friggin retire already holy crap man. I started reading your first wall of woe is me text then I wisely scrolled down to see just how much you cannot stand this class. Wow. From an outside perspective can I just say that it is now SUPER CLEAR how you feel about the class. There is no need for these epic text walls holy wow...
Very interesting! May i ask, why you dont use Deceiving Constriction? We had a discussion going on, whether to leave it out or not, because of exceeding debuff slots on mob, but then kept it in rotation due to the debuff component behind. I will run some tests on dummy to check that out, as you have 2 spells less in rotation. Also, what i have expected as reason is due here. We are requiring like 450-520 secs to get Zlandi down. Reading your parse data you guys needed not longer than 120 secs. Dummy tests i ran without adps from others rendered me around 500-550K DPS when going for 2 mins. In 180 sec runs on dummy i ended around 430-450K. Means logically that every minute the fight lasts longer you are going to lose like 80-100K per minute until the lower end of DPS in around 180-250K. When deriving those data i wouldnt be far off from you in your scenario. Missclicks on false spells happen - I am using MKB on SG 2-5 for DD and DoT to avoid missclicks and trying to keep 3 dots in rotation while using ADPS with mouse click when up. Thanks for this enlightenment.
Because nobody ever raised hand to underline the gaps existing we are there where we are now. I love those guys like you, which read one sentence and then claiming to have understood it all. Read it, start discussing and try to improve and close the gaps. If you are happy, then dont read it. Obviously you dont have anything usefull to add. Why then read it, when you lack the base to understand what is discussed?
It is my understanding that the debuff component of the spell does not stack with Projected Somnolence / Mental Contortion so all you are really getting out of the spell is a weak dot. I'm honestly not even sure why that spell exists.
About the immunity in CoV: Tier1 zones are mostly good with mesmerize, charm and root, not with stun. If a blurr works or not is a game of luck. So CS most things are mezzable, but even a drunk monkey can pull single mobs there. Nameds are immune to all kind of CC. Temple of veeshan: no mesermize. no stun. no blurr. Charms work until 115 (while 70% in zone is higher than 115), roots work sometimes, yet roots are only of sense when you have a punt option. Our punt requires at least 3 casts with a long delay in between to get the mob out of melee range.That is not CC, that is pure panic and doesnt mean "control". Shamans and rangers punt quicker, further away and are much more of sense for CCing than any chanter. About CC in general: when did fear the last time work? Level 50? Compliant lurch stops also at 100. It is like stated above. Crowd Control was always an Everquest ONLY thing. As Everquest is transformed to a "modern game" crowd control is a relic, that will vanish. And with it the enchanter class as well. I dont care for CC as role, as in raids CC never ever was necessary or even part of raiding in any form. It was our domain, and the domain has no use more. So, ask yourselves: what is then our future as a class? DPS for sure not, we suck like warrior do in healing. ADPS and buffing? ADPS all other ADPS classes have better boosts than we do and buffing is then the last remaining domain. We should be THE support class for casters when looking in the past. Necros? dont need ANY buff from us, everytrhing we have is worse than everything they have gotten until level 105. Wizards? Are there some still? This is the most unpopular, unwanted and unneeded class since Planes of Power. We could support them, if some more would exist. Mages? Yes, they benefit greatly from our haste, but thats all then. Mana regen any mage beats every enchanter by light years, the dont need clarity at all. When using summon-reclaim technique they are from 0 mana to full mana (300K) in less than 25 seconds. When using clarity you generate in the same time like 10% of it, if that much at all. Mages are far more important with mana rods than our mini mana regen buff when it is about raid. Enchanters? Dunno when you had last time the pleasure to group with class fella outside of raids. Must be decades ago. Priest classes? We dont support healing. Shamans have better mana regen than even mages or necros. Clerics dont benefit from anything but a tiny mana regen when using spire. Im not even sure that our twincast aura or fortify support heals, dont think so. Druids maybe have a benefit from clarity and ADPS. But it doesnt make a big impact if they have or not. Melee loves our haste. But that can be done as buffmule in front of PoK. No reason to have a chanter in group or even in raid blocking a slot a usefull class could have filled by far better. And in ToL, my dear friends, this is even more limiting us. They discuss about more importance of chanters in raid forces, ignoring that we never had anything more to do than sit and provide mana regen and haste in raids. The number of raids where CC played a secondary or ignorable role is very tiny, where it was a MUST doesnt even exist. Todays raids need CC not at all, there is nothing that couldnt be solved by a necro, bard, shaman, ranger, druid or SK much better than with a chanter. If that is the future we are becoming what wizards are: high level bazar mules.
Somnolence? That spell will be overwritten like ongoingly. Never got it to stick longer than 2-3 seconds, then a rogue or warrior already has overwritten it with a much better spell than thise useless side effect of a slow, that is also overwritten by shamans slow. I had to turn off Rexas GINA message telling that somnolence has been overwritten, because i got no other message than "recast somnolence" - "recast somnolence" ongoingly in 2 seconds rythm. DC is our only magic spell, and the debuff sticks at mob compared to somnolence that doesnt stick when warriors and rogues are in raid. Casting slow on a raid is pure waste of time with no benefit to anyone, as both components are overwritten within 2 seconds if that long at all. Maybe an unpleasant answer: DC exists because Somnolence is infunctional since it was introduced, never fixed by devs and at the end considered only useful in groupfights. It is your second useful debuff beside of Tash and sticks with shaman slow, and warriors and rogues disciplines when it comes to raiding. DCs debuff and tash series are the only raid debuffs we have Somnolence is a group proc, and of use in raids only when there are no shamans, no beasts, no warriors and no rogues in raid force - which never is that way. Additional DC has an initial DD component that crits up 3.4 million (lucky crit+CH) and adds about 20% to our lacking DPS. Compared to Coalition spell: that crits 3.2 million, lower than DCs initial component. PG crits 3.74 million (lucky crit+CH). Both higher than coalition. Which is why i use it. I would say, that DC is not a DoT in primary, but a debuff, that holds a DD and DoT component. Historical i can recall, that there was an issue with debuffs from Shaman and Enc interferring each other, caused by the circumstance, that the higher the level of caster is, the higher the impact on mob in values. Disempower (Enc 16, shaman 12) spell belongs to these, as shaman and enc both got the debuff, but shaman 4 level earlier, resulting in enchanter overwriting the shaman spell due to higher level with a lesser impact on mob, than the shaman spell would have. In later levels they have integrated the Disempowerment debuff series into a 3rd DoT spell -> of which the highest version is DC.In 80 - 85 There was Smolder and the constriction debuff. Past 85 Smolder DoT and Fragemented Constriction series became united into Baffling Constriction spell line, level 89. Thats where the mess up started. Which explains maybe some of the weird stacking situations.
With respect to Somnolence being overwritten, I don't raid, and don't group with a Warrior or Rogue so I don't have that issue. However in a raid event where you have Somnolence being overwritten the SPA 184 effect of DC will still be overwritten by the Rogue/Warrior AA as they have a higher SPA 184 %. Therefore the only debuff you are getting from DC is MR, I am not sure of how this factors in to a raid setting so I can't comment on that. I am curious about your comment on the crit number for DC being higher than PG though. The base DD for DC rk.II is 8,304 vs PG rk.II 32,702. With both focus AA's maxed it increases both spells by 25% base damage. Not sure if there is something I am missing, but I was under the assumption that DC would do nowhere near the damage that PG does. If there is any way to get more DPS I will go for it, but I probably have about 500AA worth of focus to get DC ready to fire so I would want to be sure it will be worth it.
