Enchanter - Charm Pet Damage

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Sultan, Jul 19, 2018.

  1. Sultan Elder

    Obviously, the only thing left for you guys to check is this, please let us know how it goes.

    I think you have nerfed just about everything else over the past 15 years TLP's have been out, we are almost at a relatively balanced game from a TLP perspective, only took 12 years to achieve it, better late then never I guess.
  2. doah Augur

    There is much more realigning to be done !
  3. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Charmed pet damage is accurate for any era. Up through GoD charmed pets do 100% Damage, they always have. Once you get to OoW though charmed pets start doing about 66% of their max hit.

    What is not accurate for the era is the ability of a charmed pet (or any pet) to tank while PCs are in Melee range. An NPC used to prioritize PCs over pets if they were in Melee range. This was changed around SoD due to Mercenaries I think?

    In some cases this is good, because it’s easier to keep a charmed pet at full HP when you’re in a group with a tank. In other cases this is bad when you have a chanter charming and several Melee DPS but no tank. Basically the Melee DPS would have to not do anything or Tank in such a group.
  4. MesoSKCoirnav New Member

    Pets, including charm pets, being able to tank when players are in range isn't classic and it's ruining my roleplaying experience!!

    In all seriousness though, what is the reasoning beyond this change? EQ went 16 years without pets taking agro from players, and then it got changed. It made playing a beastlord annoying. Often, I found myself using Spirit of Vermin rather than a higher damaging proc, because all the damage procs (at least up to 70) have some sort of agro or stun component that made it difficult to keep my pet from ganking agro.

    If a developer reads this, is this something that could potentially get revisited, or is this change permanent?
  5. Numiko Augur

    Pets holding agro change was a lot more recent, about the time Lockjaw and Ragefire Launched.
  6. Hirbow Augur



    The only correct thing about your post is Melee DPS would not do anything; and that is out of context.

    Please stop playing this game blindly. The current charm pet damage, tankiness, stability of charm length - has made many classes in classic expansions obsolete. Just because its balance in the later expansions where pets are insignificant, doesn't mean they are not still affected in the current early expansions.

    A pet damage reduction, a pet health reduction or a higher probability of breaking the pet with a higher penalty of mana usage has to be implemented.
  7. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Oh hell just do all.

    Then maybe ill invite your rogue rather than hold out for a third enc in my group.
    Dythan likes this.
  8. Arrk Augur

    Nerf charm pet damage, nerf charm mob hp, nerf charm length, and up the charm break %....

    all those things need to occur...
    Critt and snailish like this.
  9. snailish Augur


    Maybe...

    Or you just surgically reduce the effective level of charm spells for the pre-OoW content.

    Example: Allure lets you charm up to 51, the Kunark replacement Boltran's is 53 iirc. If Allure worked up to 39, Boltran's 49... or whatever level # brings the charm pet in line to the state of the era-content.


    Sort of hard to "balance" this until player damage is hitting the content as challenging rather than overpowered though. Note: Allure to level 39 was just an example... maybe it would need to be lower, maybe higher.

    Alternatively, we could end up with the OoW and later (but eventually undone? --I thought charming got better somewhere in the 75+ game???) charm coding applied retroactively to prior content...
  10. doah Augur

    You really don't want anyone to play an enchanter it seems. Have fun sitting for 6 hours to regen 2k mana.
    Yemeth likes this.
  11. Domniatric Augur

    Charm is situational. Sometimes it is amazing sometimes it is abysmal. Yes, certain pets, in specific zones, in group play are extremely powerful. But put that enchanter in almost any other zones besides the ones containing amazing charm-able pets and their DPS takes a nose dive. Then you have zones where nothing at all can be charmed (PoP examples. plane of time, air, earth). Charm pets also always scale to the zone. So, for instance, farming low level mobs becomes tedious. It is also situational in raiding. Frequently it is risky or not advisable depending on the boss and the potential pet. And, Motm makes raid charming damn near suicidal and therefore a liability to the raid. Then there is also the fact that you are tied to your computer as long as you keep a dangerous pet, unable to AFK. There is no denying that when you can use them to their full advantage charm pets are amazing. And, if you think about it, the popular xp grind zones are probably popular because they are the ones that are good for charming. But, lets not highlight them when they are their best while forgetting all the times when they are not. All that being said, I'd welcome the idea where PC's held aggro while in melee range. Good tanks mitigate dmg better than pets anyhow (although with far less HPs).
    Rouan and Adrienna like this.
  12. Alikat Lorekeeper

    Can't believe they left chanter charm the same and nerfed melees. I kept hearing I might actually be able to keep up with the dps of a naked 53 enchanter when I had my raid geared epic monk at lvl 60 but I guess that dream is dead now.
  13. Machentoo Augur


    It was a change that had little to do with progression servers. On live, mage pets have been popular tanks for group content for years. Mage pet tank groups could not invite melee dps as they could not dps without being targetted. As a result melee dps struggled to find groups. The change was made to open up grouping options. You never know what the devs will do, but I'd guess there is almost zero chance of it being reverted.
  14. Domniatric Augur


    You are being a bit hysterical. Ok, enchanters get boltran's at level 53. That is also their best charm at lvl 60. At level 53 what's an enchanter's best pet? a hunter spider from lower dogs or something? A specific mob deep in a specific zone. A mob that is going to break a LOT at level 53. You honestly think a nude enchanter is going to just stroll into lower dogs with no gear and start shredding the place completely unsupported? Silly. They aren't going to be doing it for long I can tell you that. Your monk damage is always there. No matter the zone or situation. And, it doesn't take the support of a healer to keep you alive or put your group at risk. You will out damage a nude 53 enchanter the vast majority of the time. And, you will especially do so in a raid. Every time ppl parsed raids at lvl 60 I saw monks at the top.
  15. Alikat Lorekeeper


    Found the enchanter.
    I was in a 55+ group last night with an enchanter wearing several pieces of cloth armor + a couple empty equipment slots. He did more damage than a raid and epic equipped (and shaman buffed) ranger, monk, and SK combined.

    And there’s no ‘git gud’ component here either. Most our damage comes from auto attacking with the occasional kick.
  16. RandomStrategy Augur



    You literally cannot out DPS an enchanter with a Jopal charmed in plane of fire. Jopals, Sharks in Plane of Water, the armor guys in Air (which are Dire Charmable mind you), Earth, I don't know about, because they never really took pets there, maybe they took the DC'able armadillos, I think.

    I do know that the Sharks/Jopals/armor guys all do insane levels of damage, last I remember hearing in raid was something like 900 DPS. How the can you keep up with that.
  17. Sultan Elder

    The entire issue is, these changes are a decade and a half too late and they are making changes that are impacting and effecting the games niche and long-term population angry by what seems almost like they feel they have a solid enough population to make these changes and their bottom line will handle losing players in the process.

    In all honesty, making negative changes to peoples ability to play their characters in a 20-year-old game they are trying to rebuild is simply bad business. The P99 crowd they just gained is and was the only population left they could appeal to try and get more business and even then it wasn't a large number of people.

    While nerfing these overpowered characters might seem like a good idea in the face of fairness, what should of been done is look at the characters who are underpowered and bump them up a little to make them more competitive and desirable to play instead, its a win/win for everyone especially those who may have looked at a character that looks fun to play but put it off because they not a highly desirable character for groups/raids.
  18. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    You don’t keep up. You just play 1 more expansion and in LDoN hard missions they can’t charm anything. In GoD they are excellent in Tipt and Vxed and useless in KodTaz+. In OoW onwards they are largely a waste of space in your group.

    That’s the thing. Charm is extremely powerful in group content from Classic-GoD and then it dies. Consequently most enchanters main switch or quit at this point too as they become buff bots. Very little content demands real CC, especially not with the mitigation and gear levels TLP tanks have, they can simply tank those 2-3 mobs and have no trouble.

    Is a 900 DPS charmed pet in PoP absurd, sure. But this is a correct for the era thing. PoP was the expansion of Enchanters. While in Kunark, the enchanter Druid and Necromancers charms all capped at 53, in PoP they saw fit to cap the Druid and Necromancers charms at 60 while the enchanter charm went up to 64. As a result you had Enchanters charming in BoT and Fire and Water with those amazing pets. This is correct for the era. They get to have some fun being a core of the group before they get relegated to the background for the next 10 expansions being primarily a buff bot.

    What wasn’t correct for the era was Melee getting an Innate DPS AA that inflated not only their raid DPS but their regular grind group DPS and allowed you to plow through camps clearing far more far quicker than you should’ve. That was toned down slightly but not fixed entirely. I will be interested to see parses next week on Phinigel. I’m sure Monks and Berserkers and Rogues are still crushing the only Wizard or only Mage left in each guild but maybe it isn’t as ridiculous of a beating now.
  19. RandomStrategy Augur

    Except on Agnarr, where the Enchanter is God forever.


    If you want correct for the era, remove those click from bags (I'll suffer with it if you want to go there), bring back corpse runs, hell levels, all the stupid . Hell, remove the raid tool until it was implemented, make those single groups raiding Sky go alone and whoever did the most DPS got the loot and hope they don't over the guild.
    Sultan likes this.
  20. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Sure... but they consider those quality of life features. Not balance issues.

    You signed up to play on Agnarr. There’s a reason many people picked Enchanter, they knew the class was god status during PoP. There’s also a reason not many beastlord rerolls. They are an awful support style class during PoP. Also why there are very few mages, bad class and always have to deal with MoTM on Agnarr.

    When you play on a time locked server, there will be classes in better and worse positions. For Enchanter, they’ve got a great position. If they introduce an OoW locked server I think you’d find a lot more Berserkers and Monks and Rogues than Enchanters for good reason.
    Charlie Lai likes this.