[ENC] BP suggestions

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Sirene_Fippy, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. gotwar Augur

    To elaborate on my line of thinking with the numbers given (and again, important to read my edit - we won't be getting any official numbers anytime soon. But getting a general gauge on what's realistic is really important, hence the suggestions and request for Ngreth feedback):

    When coming up with some alternative ideas, I considered what kind of foci other classes have. One that stood out in my mind was the tank Fortitude/Deflection foci. These are discs with recasts of similar length to IoG, with an equally powerful (if not more so) benefit. I realize this is comparing apples to oranges, as one does something completely different than the other, but the "how much power do i get from X" line of thinking is still there. Hence my suggestion for the effectiveness of IoG (or hazy thoughts, as in suggestion 2)

    This is what I would aim at proposing, yes. Note that, if implemented as suggested, this would only affect critical damage and not base damage. As such, even a 10% focus would be a small (ish) increase. Hence why I think it's reasonable to extend it to all four spells in the line (Mindblade, Mindscythe, Mindcleave, Mindsunder).

    The idea behind the inclusion of the entire line is that it "future proofs" the chest item, while allowing it to remain 100% relevant.

    We're talking about a focus available on a level 105 (or higher) item. They aren't going to go back and revert items from previous expansions. As such, our priority should be things that are effective at that level. Stay on topic!
  2. fransisco Augur

    It helps to fully read posts. No one is talking about changing old focuses. I was illustrating the problem of focus effects on gear over time.
    They can be remedied by not having them focus a top lvl spell.
    Hence focusing a max lvl spell is great now, but unless it focuses the full spell group, its bad design for anything after the next xpac.
  3. gotwar Augur

    Edit: I don't know why I'm arguing. My post was clear in suggesting a focus that extended to the entire line.
    Sancus likes this.
  4. fransisco Augur

    I must have miss-read that. Apologies
  5. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    How about, a flat increase based on T2 and T3 of the spell it works on, including a crit.
    People I can ask for your crit rate are not here today. But say your spell is 10000, with crit multiplier of 6, and going to add say 9%, then it would add 5400 damage. (These are fake numbers!)
    I'm not sure the second is possible? I could be wrong, but not sure I have a way to increase proc rate. I see something to increase the proc of items, but not of spells.
    I can't tell you if the first is reasonable or not. Please don't use abbreviations.
    The third I would have to consult Aristo and Dzarn.
    And BP's are going to continue to focus one spell, not a line.
  6. Sancus Augur

    Why not use SPA 302? I'm not aware of any other item that would have a stacking conflict with that SPA. Then you could simply make it 9%, and it would scale with other modifiers.

    Previous robe foci, because they used SPA 413, scaled with other modifiers. SPA 413 is applied to the base damage before any calculations, so it's slightly more powerful than SPA 302, which is just a focus that's able to crit. That said, if a 9% SPA 302 focus was given, that seems like a reasonable compromise to maintain power similar to previous robe foci that also is able to scale.

    Anything that is a flat damage addition will look fine without modifiers present, but the abundance of critical chance and damage modifiers makes its use, in practice, significantly worse than previous solutions.

    I appreciate the attempt to alleviate SPA 413 stacking issues though!
    kizant likes this.
  7. gotwar Augur

    Just to clarify my understanding of this, we're talking about a flat +damage to <insert example spell here>, using an SPA that can crit, correct?

    That's unfortunate.

    Apologies. Illusions of Grandeur, one of our class AA's.

    The current Druid breastplate does something similar:

    https://items.eqresource.com/items.php?id=148642

    Adds 3 ticks to Group Spirit of the Black Wolf.

    If it came down to a choice between this and the flat +damage increase, the flat damage increase is likely preferable because it will benefit both group and raid play equally.

    The toughest thing here is it's hard to give real feedback when final numbers or even estimates can't be supplied. A flat +damage increase to the new Mindblade spell could be completely worthless if its too little. Conversely, it could be an amazing choice if the number is set high enough. Honestly, in a blind pick between +Illusions of Grandeur duration and +damage, I think most Enchanter mains would choose the Illusions duration focus, because our best guess on the actual duration of the benefit is more reliable.

    That's just my opinion, I'm sure some other Enchanter mains will see this bump and add in their 2 cents for additional feedback.


    Edit @ Sancus: The SPA 302 foci idea was specifically asked for and rejected. I think that's why the flat +damage compromise is being offered.
  8. Sancus Augur

    No, I'm pretty sure he means SPA 286 (or 462?), which doesn't crit. If it used SPA 303, which is a flat damage addition that crits, it wouldn't stack with Type 3 augs. Edit: Also his example numbers would make no sense if that 5400 also crit.

    Edit:
    Do you have a link to this? I know he said no to changes to other SPA's, but that was when he said it would continue to use SPA 413. That decision was later reversed, so I don't see why SPA 302 would now be off the table. To my knowledge Ngreth never said that SPA 302 was off the table after offering to change it from 413, but I may have missed it.
  9. gotwar Augur

    Unfortunately no, but I was definitely told a % damage focus that stacked w/ the TBM eyes was not an option for the Enchanter BP, which was why we changed gears (in this thread) and started looking for alternatives.
  10. Ismel Augur

    I like the idea of extending Illusions of Grandeur much like the druid BP, but a touch longer as our recast is also longer.

    Would prefer the clicky to stay the same + the standard xx% boost for new expansion, but without the illusion, as the new project illusion AA on/off mode makes the illusion part rather annoying.
  11. Reval Augur

    Change focus of unity rune to an aa.

    Make new focus that 1% of the damage that you deal with mind twist is returned as mana to your group.

    Make the new click effect fd, or something pertaining to aggro. The mechanics on fd make it ideal as the way it works is a new mechanic for this class that is solid and interesting. Maybe a 1 minute reuse?
  12. Ismel Augur

    1% of a crit from mind twist would be way more mana then all over manaregen combined, that is going be a solid No.

    Reuse of all BPs are 10min odds of getting one that is 10X faster, real slim
  13. Reval Augur

    0.5% return on the mind twist and the click just actually kills you.
    Sindaiann likes this.
  14. fransisco Augur

    Change the unity focus to an AA. Unity has been nerfed to such a long recast that this focus is wasted on the bp.
    Increase the charm level cap by 1, or increase charm duration by 20%
  15. Reval Augur

    francisco's idea is good.

    would be cool if the click was a detrimental only dispell for the group.
  16. Glandga Journeyman

    Passive: extnd Illusion of grandeur is fine
    Clicky: insta cast super tash, short duration but increase spell damage taken by BIG
  17. Sindaiann Augur

    I would prefer the IoG AA duration increase on the BP. Not sure how it wouldn't be possible as Gotwar pointed out, druid's have a similar one for Black Wolf.

    Second choice is indicated.

    Agree the unity focus should be an AA but don't believe anything charm related has enough weight to be on a BP.....unless I misunderstood what you implied.


    If they did this, it'd be most likely scaled like the spell works for us....

    [57285/6730] Mind Tempest Rk. III
    Classes: ENC/110
    Skill: Alteration
    Mana: 11256
    Restriction: Beta Only
    Target: Single
    Range: 200'
    Resist: Lowest -30
    Stacking: Mind Shatter 25
    Focusable: Yes
    Trigger Spell DS: Yes
    Reflectable: Yes
    Casting: 3s, Recast: 1.5s, Rest: 1.5s
    Duration: 30s (5 ticks), Dispelable: Yes
    Hate Mod: -30385
    2: Decrease Current Mana by 5466 per tick
    4: Decrease Current HP by 47478 per tick
    5: Return 5.8% of Damage as Mana, Max Per Hit: 2754
    Text: Your brain pulses in pain.
    Strangles your target's brain, causing #4 chromatic damage every six seconds for %z. The strangulation effect steals up to #2 mana from your target and uses it to restore up to @5 mana to you. This spell incites %M less hatred in your target than it would normally.


    2754*5 = 13770 mana returned to each group member

    For comparison current BP click returns

    Cerebral Acumen - 1840*5 = 9200

    Honestly probably just as easy to bump Cerebral Acumen to those numbers on the BP.....so not sure what that would accomplish. (yes I know the % was indicated in the quote, but lets be honest....we won't get that)
  18. fransisco Augur

    Increasing the charm cap would be ENORMOUS for the group game, and still useful on raids.

    A 5% duration increase to AoG wouldn't even be noticed outside of raid burns. While it looks nice on paper, 1-2 more ticks of AoG doesn't really do much for a grouping enchanter.
    Sindaiann likes this.
  19. Siddar Augur

    In correct Buffs like silent casting effect DoT's fully. AA impact DoT's only partially on first tick of the DoT. Not sure on worn effects.
  20. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    Still reading. No particular comments other than yes, the thought was 462 to stack with type 3, but perhaps I was misinformed.

    Edit: Oh. and no way to charm cap increase.
    Sindaiann likes this.

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