Emperor Ganak Familiar Damage Mod Stacking

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Kinadorm, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Kinadorm Augur

    Does the damage mod on "Emperor Ganak Familiar" stack with the damage mod on "Eyes of Life and Decay" so they are cumulative or is it just the highest effect?
  2. Sancus Augur

    Yes, they stack. First, as a general rule, items and spells (and AAs) stack with each other. Secondly, they're different SPAs, with the familiar using SPA 124 and the Eyes using SPA 413. In other words, even though their in-game descriptions sound similar, they're completely different effects and stack with each other (they're actually multiplicative).

    That said, the familiar does have a ton of stacking issues. I don't know what Shaman have in terms of SPA 124 effects, but most casters have better effects that don't stack. Bard Aria/Aura also is the same kind of effect and a higher focus, so if you have a bard it doesn't add anything.
  3. Parker Lorekeeper

    This gentleman is probably correct but always verify...that's my advice. I knew for years...I'm talking circa early 2000s via parsing that information being passed along about the bard class was bogus.

    Used to be the crit damage effect on glyph would not stack with 1kblades...well that was the info being passed along...until I fiddled with the order I clicked it in and it did indeed stack. Same bad info about bard no click and 3rd spire not stacking was and still is being said...but again, they do stack. You get four different max hits when testing for baseline(no effects)...with 3rd spire only....with bp only...with bp and 3rd spire.

    Use spelldat to point you in a general direction. If you're going to believe someone at least verify they have done the heavy lifting for you aka parsing.
  4. Kamzak Journeyman

    The familiar needs to be canged, it really is worthless right now. Like mentioned above, doesnt stack with some bard stuffs, also doesnt stack with shammy/druid growth spells.
  5. Cicelee Augur

    So as far as the bard stuff goes, would certain aspects of the familiar (such as the mana regeneration) still work if the other things (such as damage increase percentage) does not?

    Or is it that if one thing does not stack/work then no benefits will happen?
  6. Sancus Augur

    The other things may have stacking issues of their own, but the damage increase not stacking doesn't inherently make the other parts not stack.
  7. kizant Augur

    The problem isn't with the spelldat it's with people not understanding it and/or not keeping up with the latest changes. Glyph and Thousand Blades were just changed this past April. I don't follow melee stuff at all but I could see how it wouldn't have stacked for at least 1h slash crit damage previously. Or at least until changes before that. I'm sure there many over the years.
    Sancus likes this.
  8. Parker Lorekeeper

    Back then there was no raidloot...no SPA's to better figure things out without actual, physical testing(which I still recommend). So there were some pretty knowledgable bards back then and they were either dead wrong or they simply misunderstood. It was obvious to me things were taken off Lucy and slots with like effects were just assumed to not stack...and for most things it proved true, but not all.

    The knowledge i gained back then, were talking 10-15 years ago...by parsing every, single ability of my class has served me well. The setup I came up with back then after testing has lasted me all the way up to now...although I'm due to rehash everything again given all the changes. Sure I could look at raidloot and be probably 90-99% accurate but it's those little hidden nuggets that I deem invaluable not to mention the biggest advantage(for me) is to have committed to memory what each effect I click(as I do it in game) committed to memory. That happens(again, for me) by testing things, seeing what they actually do and change/modify/behave in real time parsing...then testing for stackablility/conflicts/synergy with other classes.

    I don't begrudge you or anyone their particular preferences, just offering another route for people wanting additional understanding of their class. Cheers!
  9. kizant Augur

    There's nothing wrong with parsing everything but it is time consuming. I'm not sure if you've been playing the entire time but the last really big change to crit damage stacking was around 2.5 years ago during TDS. You had to have at least changed something back then. It's good if you can keep up on what the changes are and how the SPAs work in addition to parsing. Knowing that stuff just helps you narrow you're testing so you're not re-valuating things all the time. They've been changing/breaking a lot of core things over the past few years and made some significant changes with RoS. I'd expecting things to not be very stable for a while.
    Parker likes this.
  10. Parker Lorekeeper

    Think I'm wrong on my understanding of things back then so perhaps you're right in people's misinterpertations on lack thereof actually seeing (now I'm guessing) as how SPA information was available on Lucy even back then? If no one really figured that out back then, you're correct people didn't understand it but it's one thing to not understand and another to pass along bad information WITHOUT confirming it(parsing). I had no clue what SPA's were back then even to even attempt to try to decipher...I've always been a big fan of the scientific method so that lent itself beautifully to what I did.

    I appreciate your input.
  11. kizant Augur

    I don't really know when a lot this information was posted publicly. There's some entries on the EQwiki going back to 2008. For a long time there wasn't much need to know. That's true for sure.
  12. Devilsinthedetail New Member

    So is Daybreak just ignoring the stacking issue or maybe plan on fixing it?
  13. Riou Augur

    Pretty sure it is intended
  14. Darktank New Member

    Blocked by SK Defiant Stance. Can not even use it. Please fix. I think Wars have a buff that blocks it too.
  15. Ghubuk Augur

    Is this being looked at so that will work for shadowknights? Seems odd that Defiant Stance will overwrite it.
  16. Ghubuk Augur

    Actually, any of the classes that cast the defiant stance type spells (druids, shaman, cleric) etc will cause it to be overwritten. As it is the end result of doing all the progression quests in the expansion, it seems quite the letdown to run into this issue.
  17. Warpeace Augur

    Its also a Paladin issue. Really need to be addressed.
  18. Yimin Augur

    This thing was striping my pet of all of her buffs at one time ! Is that still happening ?

    Yi MIn
  19. Beimeith Augur

    Part of the issue is terminology. People don't usually differentiate between *spell* stacking (whether spell 2 lands on you if you already have spell 1) with *effect* stacking, (what the two spells actually DO), with *domain* stacking (buff/song vs AA vs worn).

    It doesn't help that EQ always has exceptions to every rule. They usually involve Bards, too.

    Generally speaking:

    1) If two spells are in different domains (buff/song, AA, worn) with the same EFFECT (SPA), the EFFECT *will* stack.

    Notable exception: Runspeed. (You get the highest runspeed effect only).

    2) If two spells in the same domain use different SPAs, the EFFECTS *will* stack.

    Notable exception: Melee Haste/Slow. (There is more than one SPA for this, and the effects are NOT cumulative. You get the more powerful effect). (SPA 11, 98, & 371). Caveat for 98, I don't remember if it stacked or not, but I'm pretty sure it didn't when I tested it.

    Exception to the exception: Bard "overhaste," (SPA 119) which does stack with normal haste up to the global cap.

    Honorable mention: Invisibiliy & Invisibility vs Undead. IvU stacks with Invis, but Invis does not stack with IvU. You need to have Invis on you first, then get IvU cast on you.

    3) If two spells in the same domain use the same SPA in the same slot, the SPELLS *will not* stack.

    Notable exceptions: Focus effects.

    3.1) If two spells in the same domain use the same SPA in the same slot, AND the SPELLS stack, the EFFECTS will *not* stack.

    Notable exception: DoT critical chance. (Necro 2.0 and 2.5 critical chances stack, and they are both worn). Note that this may be more of an exception with regard to worn effects rather than DoT crit chance itself. This is a known example though.

    4) If two spells in the same domain use the same SPA in different slots, the EFFECT *may* stack.

    There is no hard and fast rule about whether an SPA will stack with itself if it is in a different slot. It is really on a case-by-case basis. Some stack, some don't. I'd say more stack than not.

    These are general guidlines, but as you can see, there are exceptions and exceptions to exceptions. Nor is this a complete listing.

    If there is ever doubt, there is no substitute for in-game testing. However, you should be able to prove what you say mathematically. If you can't explain why something is happening, you can't really be sure you know what *is* happening.
  20. Kamzak Journeyman

    Seams silly to me, like mentioned above, end of expansion reward is not usable by. Bards, SK's Pallies, Druids, Shammies, clerics and warriros. (Pretty sure mages and wizies to, but would have to double check that)

    Congradulations Norathians! Here is your reward for your hard work (PS only half of you can actually use it)

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