Druids running multiple wraths?

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Mugsie, Dec 6, 2014.

  1. Mugsie Elder

    Anyone else tried weaving our 105/100 dot yet since we get 2 tick extension?

    Its not really look all that impressive to me thus far, anyone run longer parse to figure it?

  2. guado Augur

    I'm thinking it might be cool to try.

    Burn Key
    Forceful Rejuv

    etc etc should be fun to try!!! Good call.
  3. Mugsie Elder

    Shared timer on wraths, its why we didn't run them befor, so single key bind only works if forceful is available.
    They last 2 more ticks with aa now, so you average losing about one tick of top one to run hit + 5 ticks of lower, but you have to toggle them. Plus we lose a valuable spell slot.

    I was running
    105Wrath, Hail, BigMagic, 100wrath, Hail, BigMagic, 105wrath

    Seemed okay, if you have multi-bind would have to split to accommodate the shared timer though.
    Was a bump, but seemed only worth effort if I didn't have to heal / buff at all?

  4. Iila Augur

    My go-to dps set right now is 105Roar, 100Roar, 95Roar, 105wrath. With the 3 roars being a multibind rotation, and NFW being a manual cast.

    It's not as much of a dps boost as I had hoped, though. But it is compact on spell slots.

    I haven't had the time or motivation to test out other dps weaves. Especially since I can't just autofire afk them anymore, with Wrath dots being so bad to cast on refresh now.

    My method has been to get enough buffs in the GH to hit 100% crit rate, turn on twincast, and do a rotation long enough for the random elements like focuses to drop to noise. Or I wanted to use my computer for something else. 30-60 minutes of a weave gives a solid number to compare to other weaves. Short parses without max crits or 100% TC are more skewed by some lucky streaks of crits, TCs, or resists.
  5. tinywolf1 Journeyman

    iI find it better to remove focus items that affect damage, at least, when testing. You get the crit damage, the regular damage, and the crit rate. The nuke portion is not an actual nuke. NWW is a DoT not a nuke/DoT. Extending the duration of the DoT effect by 67% now makes this spell half-decent, which only goes to show how broken it was prior to TDS.

    I found that NWW underperformed in actual game situations as compared to casting on dummies because I hadn't factored in the effects of our many DD crit chance/dmg bonus abilities and our very few - well, one - DoT crit rate/dmg bonus AA. Wolf can be self-maintained virtually 100% of the time; Destructive Vortex only 20%

    I don't think there is an optimal set-up that is best in all cases: How often is trash still alive 30s after engage? How much less effective are our magic-based nukes on T3 named than we would expect if they were never resisted? Must..resist...OCD.
  6. Iila Augur

    NWW was our best damage spell last expansion, and NFW still is. The mobs do need to live for at least 3 ticks, though. If your group is killing faster than that, switch over to pure nukes.

    No focus testing works, but it skews rains and dots. Rains because they can't be focused. Dots because they focus differently than nukes.

    I've had some good results on Vitio burns by opening with Chill, Roar, NFW, force rejuv, NWW, Roar.

    BUT the big news is that with the change to allow split nukes to be fully modified, Winter's Wildflame is now better than Roar of Kolos. Faster cast and recast means it's excellent for closing a multibind. And if you were ever having problems not pulling aggro in exp groups, it should solve that as well.
  7. porky Augur

    I looked at this right after the change and Winter's Wildflame was doing ~30k for each nuke portion on a crit, far less than any of the Roar spells on a crit. I didn't parse it, nor test it with any other classes ADPS mods on me. It still ranks in number 5 or 6th in line of a DPS spell to load. In most cases, I would rather load in wrath than this. Wondering why you think its better?
  8. Iila Augur

    WW does have slightly lower damage, but makes up for it by casting faster. Cast time on WW is 1.6, Kolos is 2.0. This bumps it over Kolos in terms of dps without factoring in aura/potion procs. Once you add in WW's ability to double dip on a few things, it's clearly ahead of Kolos.
    Without any focuses, a Kolos rk3 crit is 79514, while a WW rk1 crit is 35009+37209=72218.
    Using just cast time:
    72218 / 1.6 =45136
    79514 / 2 = 39757
    Adding in 1.8 gcd
    72216 / 3.4 =21240
    79514 / 3.8 = 20924

    Non-crit hits are 6245+6632=12876 vs 14960. Giving cast time dps of 8047 vs 7480, and cast+gcd dps of 3787 vs 3936.

    Bonus damage from worn focuses would be the same on each, so removing them makes it easy to compare. And note that I've only got rk1 of WW, which has a total base damage of 6078+5692=11770 compared to rk3's 6701+6276=12977 (Kolos rk3 is 13735).

    The 3x roar weave worked fine with no gaps, but replacing the kolos with WW opens up more space due to the faster cast. I'm gonna spend some time on trying out a few weaves and see what works out best and making sure they're better than 3*roar+NFW.

    First draft is:
    NFW (manually cast first)

    First cycle casts Remote as spell #4, second cycle casts NFW just before it fades. Not quite optimal, but close.
  9. porky Augur

    It may be better if you are alone, I guess not for me since i am always in some form of black wolf and have high spell damage mods. Once you factor in ADPS from other classes WW keeps losing more ground. I tested this with just my chanter for ADPS today WW doing 105k crits on one of its nukes compared to roar doing 430k.
  10. Ravengloome Augur

    Your going to compare a Haze'd nuke to one that was not? Really?
  11. porky Augur

    I said it may work better when you are alone, but not with ADPS, Haze/IoG/AugAura/Blackwolf all perfectly compound on top of each other, which means the bigger your nuke and the bigger your cast/recast the more punch will come out of your spell. Most of our spells both nukes and heals have long casts/recasts if you don't play on that, then you are missing out.
  12. Iila Augur

    Those are all with black wolf. Spell damage is a bit low because I took off 3 pieces of gear.
    Chromatic haze is better with roars. For everything else, please provide examples and preferably parses. High score hits are neat and all, but there's a lot more going on than just looking for highest possible hit.

    Anyways, first test run of that weave against triple roar had it ahead by ~2.5%, so the difference is going to be small.
  13. porky Augur

    3 Roars and Remote with only Blackwolf

    Combat Dummy Lena on 2/27/2015 in 303sec
    --- DMG: 13471649 (100%) @ 44461 dps (44461 sdps)

    2 Roars and WW and Remote with only Blackwolf

    Combat Dummy Lena on 2/27/2015 in 586sec
    --- DMG: 23607555 (100%) @ 40286 dps (40286 sdps)

    3 Roars and Remote with Blackwolf and Chanter to ADPS.

    Combat Dummy Lena on 2/27/2015 in 357sec
    --- DMG: 32879548 (100%) @ 92100 dps (92100 sdps)

    2 Roars and WW and Remote with Blackwolf and Chanter ADPS

    Combat Dummy Lena on 2/27/2015 in 302sec
    --- DMG: 22175133 (100%) @ 73428 dps (73428 sdps)

    Even with only black wolf(which we always have) the AA and SD on Roar will make it do more DPS than WW(in this case ~10pct more.) The more support we have the more the gap widens. With chanter ADPS we do 25pct more DPS.
  14. Iila Augur

    I won't be able to test with an enc till one logs on, but here's the results from my tests so far.

    Round one. Black Wolf, Aura of Void, rk3 spell haste Auspice, first spire, Twincast rk3, Hedgewizard brew, Focus of Arcanum, Frostweave rk3 till it fades. 100% crit rate, 100% TC rate. Dummies were debuffed with Ro and Moonbright frost.

    Detrimental spell haste is 105 raid, fire and cold focus is 54-100 105, magic is 50-100 103

    Multibind weave of Anabatic rk1, Katabatic rk3, Winter's WIldfire rk1, Remote Sunflash rk3, Nature's Fiery Wrath rk3. But started off by casting NFW.
    Combat Dummy Yza in 598s, 47635k @79657sdps --- #1 Illa 47635k@79657sdps (79657dps in 598s)

    Multibind of Anabatic rk1, Katabatic rk3, Kolos rk3. Manually casting Nature's Fiery Wrath rk3 on fade, plus leading with it.
    Combat Dummy Sana in 523s, 40653k @77731sdps --- #1 Illa 40653k@77731sdps (77731dps in 523s)

    Same weaves as above, but no aura (still using potion), added Nature's Fury and Destructive Vortex (and a horse to be able to use NF for this long)
    5 spell weave:
    Combat Dummy Xeza in 298s, 27502k @92290sdps --- #1 Illa 27502k@92290sdps (92290dps in 298s)
    Combat Dummy Vena in 404s, 38169k @94477sdps --- #1 Illa 38169k@94477sdps (94477dps in 404s)
    Combat Dummy Yza in 509s, 46877k @92096sdps --- #1 Illa 46877k@92096sdps (92096dps in 509s)
    Avg 92954dps (+3.4%)

    4 spell:
    Combat Dummy Xeza in 275s, 24744k @89977sdps --- #1 Illa 24744k@89977sdps (89977dps in 275s)
    Combat Dummy Yza in 278s, 25039k @90070sdps --- #1 Illa 25039k@90070sdps (90070dps in 278s)
    Combat Dummy Uzah in 563s, 50444k @89598sdps --- #1 Illa 50444k@89598sdps (89598dps in 563s)
    Avg 89881dps

    The idea was to test as close to how I'd be using the weaves as possible. While reducing the randomness, focus effects and potion procs are the only variables in this. GCD fillers like storm strike were left out because they'll be used the same no matter what my spell weave is.

    3.4% over 100m damage is something, but over short parses that can easily be lost to noise. I do want to test with bard and enc burns up, since WW gets more use out of flat and per-spell boosts. But a haze proc being used by WW is a lot worse than being used on Kolos
  15. Iila Augur

    Like I mentioned in serverwide, leaving out NFW is an advantage to the 3roar weave. Since that weave is a closed loop that you need to add NFW to, and disrupt your cast order. The 5 spell weave has gem downtime to start casting NFW, thanks to WW's shorter cast time. If you're not making use of the shorter cast time on WW, and just comparing it straight across to Kolos, then yes, Kolos is going to be better in most situations.

    Vitio is the only raid that I'm loading a dps set for right now, and for that I can replace almost my whole bar with damage spells. Most of the other raids don't give me much time to kick in damage except for assisting into remote + storm strike.

    WTB splitting the remote lines and giving them alternating timers, so at least when I'm doing crappy amounts of damage, I can also be healing.
  16. Repthor Augur

    i allways found it very iconic for the druids like the shadowknights to be dpsing and healing combo at same time. its allways been thier thing . its kinda sad that the devs dident soport this for druids but they do for sks. Its a niche that both classes has had along time b4 they put a stop to it. Non of them gonna be topping the charts with the split healing/nuke combos . but its a very intresting way of makeing a cuple classes special.
  17. guado Augur

    What do you guys think about this burn rotation? It is specific to a single target burn mob since it uses Plummeting Hail.

    Burn Key
    First Spire
    Nature's Fury
    Personal Black Wolf
    Silent Casting
    Improved Twincast
    Empowered Focus of Arcanum

    BP Click

    Spell Rotation:
    Nature's Fiery Wrath
    Plummeting Hail
    Anabatic Roar
    Katabatic Roar
    Roar of Kolos (EDIT: Or Winter's Wildflame?)

    Refreshing Plummeting Hail and Fiery Wrath when appropriate, and obviously intelligently using the Roars.

    I find it highly beneficial to forceful rejuv and hit Plummeting Hail twice in a row to fully take advantage of Improved Twincast. Alternatively, wait until Improved Twincast is down, and forceful rejuv during your normal Twincast.
  18. Iila Augur

    That looks good. Tested it with the same buffs as my last post.

    With Kolos:
    Combat Dummy Heda in 485s, 42863k @88377sdps --- #1 Illa 42863k@88377sdps (88377dps in 485s)
    Combat Dummy Heda in 330s, 29724k @90071sdps --- #1 Illa 29724k@90071sdps (90071dps in 330s)
    Avg 89224dps

    With WW
    Combat Dummy Heda in 449s, 41149k @91646sdps --- #1 Illa 41149k@91646sdps (91646dps in 449s)
    Combat Dummy Heda in 453s, 42470k @93752sdps --- #1 Illa 42470k@93752sdps (93752dps in 453s)
    Avg 92699dps

    Seems comparable to the weave with remote. Totally gives up on hitting roars with haze procs, as rain waves will use a haze charge when they hit.

    On Vitio, I prebuff the same, but lead with Chill before going into a weave. BP click I save for gcd filler, since it gets used quickly with twincast and it's always a flat amount.
  19. Iila Augur

    I tried out Hail, Roar, Roar, Wildflame, (+NFW) as my weave on Vitio last night, and got a new high score with it. About 8k better than my previous best
  20. Iila Augur

    Rains getting wrecked means its time to dig up some of the weaves from this thread.

    WW is getting better, and Kolo doesn't have the haze support it had back when this was posted. So I'm thinking 2 roar, WW, remote, plus NFW will more clearly beat out 3 roar plus NFW. The extra spell gem with 3 roars is certainly important, and makes it worth loading over the higher dps weave at times.

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