Druid Wishes

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Allayna, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. Tucoh Augur

    How much would druids want an upgrade to Arboreal Absolution and a new Mysterious Ways that was cast limited (ex: Max Hits: 8 Offensive Proc Casts like Cleric's hand of merciful infusion) instead of hit limited?
  2. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    My thought behind the AE change was to increase the mana value such that it’s prohibitively high for General single target use. To make it more like a spell you could cast 10-15~ times and should be able to bring down a pull before that.

    Also while focus contributions aren’t what they used to be, AE spells don’t benefit from worn focuses and several ADPS abilities because they are multi-target. I’m not sure I see how that base value can scale up to 2.5million per cast though.

    Admittedly I think just increasing the hit limit from 5 to 12 to match wizard/Mage beams is the better alternative, but I figured I’d throw out two option to allow for solo Druids to kite more effectively.

    Arboreal Absolution was trash because it conflicted with Mana Reiterate Aura when it launched and it had a stupidly long recast time. Mysterious Ways is trash because it’s a buff for Melee characters on a class mostly geared towards supporting Casters, that consumes hit counters without firing procs. Earlier in the thread I suggested an aura that procs a ToT Heal on a Detrimental Spell cast, which would pulse every 3 ticks like our frost DD Aura. I think that’s the closest I’d want to get to either of those existing abilities.
    Tucoh likes this.
  3. Sancus Augur

    The actual formula has truncations and additional SPAs that don't really factor in here. That said, here's the simplified formula for a crit (100% crit rate on a burn):

    ((Base_Dmg*(1+SPA_413))*(2+SPA_170)+(Base_Dmg*(1+SPA_413))*SPA_296)*(2+SPA_170)+((Base_Dmg*(1+SPA_413))*SPA_302)*(2+SPA_170)+(SPA_303*(2+SPA_170))+SPA_462+((2+SPA_170)*(((Cast+Recast)/7)*Spell_Damage))+(Base_Dmg*(1+SPA_413))*SPA_493+(Base_Dmg*(1+SPA_413))*SPA_507))*(1+SPA_399)

    The base damage is 76925, SPA_413 is 0.2 (10% from focus AA and 10% from Eyes of Life and Decay), SPA_170 is 6.73 (340% Passive + 160% IoG + 100% BW + 60% Glyph + 13% FE), SPA_302 is 0.3 from Natuer's Fury, SPA_303 is 733 from the Type 3, SPA_462 is 5000 from Threads, I chose 3,000 for Spell Damage, SPA_493 is 0.09 from Tashan's Lingering Cry, SPA_507 is 13% from Fierce Eye, and Twincast is 100% from Twincast or Improved Twincast. Plug all that in:

    ((76925*(1+0.2))*8.73+((76925*(1+0.2))*0.195)*8.73+((76925*(1+0.2))*0.3)*8.73+(8.73*733)+5000+(8.73*(((3+12)/7)*3000))+(76925*(1+0.2))*0.09+(76925*(1+0.2))*0.13))*(1+1) = 2,585,197.674

    I know the above sucks from a readability standpoint, but that's how it gets to 2.58 million per cast. 15k mana per cast is high, but it wouldn't prevent it from being used in single target situations (especially shorter ones), and it would be immensely powerful on any sort of AE burn, far exceeding the AE potential of DPS casters.
    Darchon_Xegony likes this.
  4. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Ah I wasn’t considering merging individual Nuke values to reach that 2.5 million figure when Twincasting but I guess that makes sense.

    Fair enough! I legitimately wasn’t thinking about the single burn implications, was more from a solo viewpoint for kiting. Once the full gambit of ADPS abilities from a bard and enchanter come in I can see how such a large base value would make the spells absurd.
    Sancus likes this.
  5. kizant Augur

    I think it makes sense for druids to ask for a beam. I just wish they'd be more consistent. If all your AE does is damage then I would rather all Target AEs, all beams, etc all just work the same. It just confuses people and makes it more difficult for the devs to balance things when they all different. imo. Not that there can't be special cases. Mez AEs can have more targets or whatever but they're for different purposes.
    Warpeace and Brohg like this.
  6. Raeff the Druid Journeyman

    I like the fact that this thread is starting to evolve into a more nuanced discussion of the druid class.

    When discussing druid dps, I see that our discussion benefits from breaking down that discussion into solo/group dps, sustained dps, and raid burn categories.

    I have stated before that I am not concerned about increasing druid raid burns for druids. But there should be ways we can increase druid dps in the solo and group game without significantly changing the raid burn outcome. For instance, increasing our mana regen would be a great help, and would not increase raid burn dps at all. It would allow us higher sustained dps (and healing across time) in all phases of the game, which is fine, and makes sense.

    More specifically, I think adjustments in our mana regen should be combined with adjustments in our casting times, and with reasonable adjustments to our non-wrath DOT damage.

    Add that to consolidation in those lines, or consolidation of all of our debuffs, then we would see real improvement in the class without really impacting balance.

    Of course, I would still love to see some truly creative changes in game - for all classes - and have previously outlined some ideas in that regard for druids. But, I acknowledge that such ideas are challenging to implement.

    I am hopeful that druids will receive several significant improvements in the new expansion, as we have been falling behind in solo/group and sustained dps for some time.
    Allayna likes this.
  7. Petalonyx Elder

    Here's perhaps an easy one:

    Lower the Reuse of AA Exodus.

    It would help relieve some spell gem stress in difficult group content, where i still find it best to run the spell evac to cover AA evac downtime. It took quite a few deaths while hammering Exodus on CD, or scrambling to mem the spell evac before i realized it was optimal to run the spell full time.

    No comment on the 'portal collapse' / left behind function. It makes me laugh every time!
  8. Cragzop Augur


    Do not disagree with the sentiment. And hopefully this will be one of the things standardized in aa timers that Dzarn eluded to in the Live Update thread with Hand of Tunare changes incoming. With the aggro changes in evacs, no reason this should be on such a long timer.

    But they would have to pretty much remove the recast to alleviate spell gem stress in difficult group situations. Cutting the timer in half still leaves 7m12s of downtime...is it taking you that long to get reset from an evac at a difficult spot?

    If I am going to have a spell loaded for group play, it's more like Succor: Ro so that the zone out will not have me dealing with 20 mobs at succor point due to dot aggro. The only time I use Exodus is to get a group around in a zone these days.

    At this point, I'd probably be okay with Exodus just turning into an aa Succor cast as long as they reduced the cast time on Succor to .5 sec (so you would have to stop, but still pretty much a guarantee to get the spell cast). But I can see some folks not wanting the removal of an instant cast ability.

    Fun fact: did you know Succor has an extra mana drain on it?
  9. Petalonyx Elder

    I didnt know that, but im a pretty clueless druid :)

    Maybe this is best solved with a new AA? 1-3 second cast succor AA with much shorter CD, mimicking the spell more?

    To me it would seem preferable to just have the 1 Exodus AA on much faster recast. Probably preferrable from an AA development standpoint as well.
  10. Ninelder Augur

    How about asking for anything that increases our Aura duration. We have always been told that they couldn't increase aura duration because of the stress it puts on the zone. But they gave shaman a permanent, zone-wide(even from opposite corners of Frontier Mountains) aura that only has to be recast after they die, just one time! Obviously this whole zone stress thing was a lie.

    We need to ask for our aura to be like the shaman one. I do not expect them to give it to us, even though the shaman got theirs for free. It would still be a good starting point for negotiations to make our aura better.

    We don't really want anything ridiculous like the shaman aura, but if we could get them to extend the duration to 75 mins(like most every other class with an aura.) Then even if they put in a large AA cost to gain the ability they gave to others for free, it would still be worth it.
  11. Brohg Augur

    The other class with combat auras (enchanters have two) also has 5 minute duration on their combat auras.
  12. Tucoh Augur

    As someone who went from playing a sha/bard/cle that had to very infrequently cast auras, I was pretty confused when my enchanter's mana proc aura kept dropping. I have no idea why they kept that like that and left the other auras to be semi-permanent.
  13. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    I think my biggest frustration when playing in the group game is the number of semi-useful spells we have with short duration timers.

    Reptile - Lasts about 10 minutes
    Growth - Lasts about 6-7 minutes
    Proc Auras - Lasts 6 minutes

    I’d really like to see an AA usable every 90 seconds that autocasts our highest Growth and highest Reptile spell on our target, this would hugely help free up some spell slots for me personally.

    If they could make all Proc auras like the Druid Fire/cold and enchanter mana reiterate lines last 30 minutes that would be incredible.
  14. Allayna Augur

    I'm under the impression that developers think that a druid is a shaman. I say that because they gave the druid rain heal to the shaman, what I imagine to be a good druid aura....to the shaman, the better pet....to the shaman.
  15. Raeff the Druid Journeyman

    Since we appear to focused on easy-to-implement changes for the druid, how about some changes to our Summon only nuke:
    Repudiate the Unnatural Rk. II


    Druid (108) - Magician (108)

    Slot 1: Decrease Current Hit Points by 18413
    Slot 2: 24% Chance To Also Cast Annihilate Resistances
    Slot 3: 11% Chance To Also Cast Repudiate Destruction

    Looks good, right? But then when you see how few mobs it can hit (it is mob type restricted 'summoned mobs' which means a few elemental types) then you see the problem.

    I'd love to hear from other druids who have found frequent ways to use this spell - frankly I can remember only one time when I used it, and then primarily as an experiment. My sense is that it is rarely if ever used by anyone. But, if we could loosen restrictions just a little, then it could add some nice flavor to druid gameplay.

    What would be interesting is an AA that would allow us a way to add certain classes of mobs to the list of mobs this would work on. Better yet, create several AAs that allow the druid to set a new class of mobs as acceptable targets for this spell, and which then precludes another choice. So, if you choose to make orcs the new subset of classes affected by the spell, then you can't spend AA on the other options (Giants, Goblins, Orcs, etc...)

    That would allow some interesting differentiation across the druid player base, and allow some druid's to earn their titles....."Giant-bane" or "Orc-bane" .. Would be fun and would have minimal impact on balance issues.
  16. Raeff the Druid Journeyman

    Or, as mentioned before, why not create dynamic gameplay by allowing a few of our neglected spells some interesting stacking benefits, or 'once-in-awhile' benefits.

    For instance, what if our DS - which many players reject since it causes so little damage and it takes up a buff slot - had a 20% chance to do a super strike of 10 times the normal damage - 6120. And perhaps we could gain an AA that would add a 5% chance for a maximum strike of 10 ties the super strike - 61,200.

    Again, would be fun to see, and would make tanks consider snagging our buffs again.

    Likely this would need some tuning so that the super and max strikes could only be triggered by mobs +-5 levels of you, but this would be another fun flavor to add to druid's without causing huge changes to balance or gameplay.

    Imagine a similar scenario for our health regen buff. Perhpas it gains a chance to super heal every tick.Since the base heal is at 900 or so, then a super regen tick might be 9000, and the maximum tick 90000. Or better yet, perhaps you gain these possibilities - or even increase them - when the toon also has a specific shaman buff or cleric buff (one not in healer merc spell sets).

    There are so many ways to change these neglected spells and make them useful again without really changing gameplay significantly or affecting class balance.
  17. Warpeace Augur



    Sounds like your asking for something along the way several Paladin spells are coded?

    Example

    Censure


    Paladin (107)

    Slot 1: Decrease Current Hit Points by 5103 if Not Undead or Summoned
    Slot 2: Decrease Current Hit Points by 7655 if Undead
    Slot 3: Decrease Current Hit Points by 6507 if Summoned
    Slot 4: Cast: Censure Heal

    There are probably ways to slide those restriction type spells into more frequently used spells. It's just a matter of how you and others in the class can sell it. If so good luck.
    Tucoh likes this.
  18. Allayna Augur


    Do you mean, Wrath of the Wild? 10 hits of 60K damage shield every 2 minutes?
    Or like the heal, Thornspike Rush? The one that combines Adrenaline Barrage and Thornspike. A heal, a mitigation buff and a DS of 4697 at level 1 with a 10% chance to be 7001.

    If anything I'd be asking for faster casts and re-casts of these spells since that is the severely crippling part of playing a druid.

    The regen change you're asking for is a HoT. Just ask for a HoT.

    This is more just a quality of life request, but Nourishing Growth line, can it just gray out the spell gem for the 5 minutes? 3 seconds for a cast time is a bit long as well. Perhaps a bug, but the "recast" timer of the ability will not tick down while in non-combat zones, unlike many other abilities and the buff cannot be removed.
    The whole design of this spell is flawed.

    Imo, druids need a lot of attention in the coming expansion and almost none of it has to do with damage output.

    Mana recoup
    Heal lineup
    Aura attention
    Linking of debuffs
    Un-linking of lines - heals / auras / remotes
  19. Brohg Augur

    Jesus this would be a HUGE nerf, wtf. It would revert the very awesome great change druids & devs took a year to work out. 5 minute grey-out would mean (did mean) every druid loses spell gem for the rest of their lives. Who cares about non-combat zones? Mana bear needs to do "more" maybe to stay current but -

    Nourishing Growth's mechanic should not change it is the way it is on purpose and needs to stay that way.
  20. Allayna Augur

    I guess I was under the impression they could separate the initial load time from the recast time. I was not asking for it to be like twincast, where loading it would mean 5 min before use. Only that the icon went inactive after cast.

    Like I said, it was a QoL request as I hate /stopc all the time because I'm trying to get mana back and it's not been 5 minutes yet.

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