Druid dps?

Discussion in 'Priests' started by IblisTheMage, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. IblisTheMage Augur

    Hi all,

    I am seeking your guidance on how to set up my druid for my box.

    The druid is secondary healer, and in 99% of combats he will be DPS & aDPS. His role is DPS/ADPS —> Utility/ports —> healer. Considering casting Alliance on nameds when that becomes an option.

    It is a caster box 110-ish: SK SHM DRU MAG MAG ENC.

    I have a fast debuf & pull social macro, a “initiate melee attack” social macro, and a multibind for dps until the mob is dead, and after combat social macros. (And others, omitted for brevity).

    It is a fast killing group, and some dps is dealt in the interval where the mob is running towards the group. The group is repositioned very often with group coth. Mobs are debuffed with Mal, Tash, slows and melee/AC debufs. Pet & Swarm pets are spammed, I try to have as many as possible to get the most out of the mage nuke line Of Many (#pets >15).

    Focus is on Fire damage, and there is also some magic damage and lifetaps. Combats vary from 20-30 sec, ocassionally shorter or longer.

    DRU is catching up, so is low on AA, autogrant still etc. The DRU is Gold.

    My interest is in what I should put on the mob before multibind (debufs and dots), and what my multibind should be; Mana conservation will be of some interrest initially, until the DRU catches up, but mana generation is quite good, with enchanter and SK generating group mana, and mod rods:

    1 - Debuff/ pull
    2 - Engage
    3 - multibind DPS

    I fire most adps AA on most toons more or less randomly on cooldown, not saving much for nameds, and not timing epics etc. It gives some variance in dps, but even when everything is on cooldown, it is OK, not great, but enough to be fun for me.

    Thanks in advance for your help. I have been reading fora on the matter, and have tried some stuff, but I understand that the class has been going through changes, so it would be fantastic to get specific input from Mains.
  2. Rolaque Ancient, before the century turned

    Debuffs: Ro's, Icerend Breath (for your cold aura), and Season's Wrath
    Multibind DPS: use a 3 nuke rotation, Summer Sunshock, Typhonic, and Remote. You could multibind in Nature's at the beginning for a longer fight, such as for a named. But second firing of NFW in the last quarter of a trash fight is a waste of druid mana.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  3. Petalonyx Augur

    I play my druid essentially the same way, in a group with 2 mages and paladin. I use only dots for dps in ToV.

    Because many of the good dots refresh quickly (Sunshock and Horde of Insects line mainly), they may not work well in a multibind.

    I instead use 2 macros: One that includes debuffs followed by dots used initially (and sometimes exclusively if mobs die fast), and one that is a full chain of 5 dots.

    IMO, the main thing is to keep NFW up as much as possible. It's just a huge portion of druid dps. If you make a multibind, it might be worth putting NFW in there first.

    Since I think AA nukes/debuffs break macros (cause macro to abort when spammed), you'd only want them in your multibind if you arent using any macros.

    In a box group, there is a strong case for a dot macro over a multibind, and once you go that route, you may not have much options for a good multibind. At least a NFW spam key would still be worthwhile.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  4. IblisTheMage Augur

    Question 1:

    Since my casters are fire dominant, and my mages spam fire-based synergy (they have different rotations to maximize nymber of synergies), my first thought was to stear clear of Ice (shaman has an ice nuke also), and focus on fire.

    But I am interpreting your advice as this: Icerend Breath will help on a non-ice nuke, if the Icerend Aura is running, since a fire DD will trigger aura-Icerend strike, which then gets 2-10% more damage? Is that a larger effect than 5% x about 5k of the icerend strike? 250 pr nuke, 6x pr Aura, doesn’t sound like much, but I am likely not getting it :)
  5. IblisTheMage Augur

    Question 2.

    You do not mention Erupting Sunray; because of the +dam to fire DD, I would assume it was high on the list? (maybe there are stacking issues?

    Thanks a lot for your advice.
  6. IblisTheMage Augur

    Question 3:

    What about the Skin to Surmak, are there stacking issues?
  7. IblisTheMage Augur

    So your approach is to avoid nuking, and instead just keep stacking dots? I understand it as you put 6+ dots on the mob, but don’t nuke?

    Thank you very much for your time.
  8. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    1. For whatever reason devs stopped providing druids Fire Auras in RoF. So if you are using the newest ice aura it is about 5.3-5.6k proc. If you were to use the old RoF fire aura, it caps at 2.9k proc. Icerend Breath only impacts cold based damage, so it would only amplify those Icerend Aura procs.

    That being said, using Icerend Breath on a trash mob is not worth the cast time if the mob is dying quickly. You will run into a decent number of resists, however with Malo you will cut down on this enough to warrant running the modern ice proc aura over the RoF proc aura. Without malo it may shake out more evenly.

    2. Erupting Sunray is great for a long fight. On trash it is not worth the cast. The only stacking issue with this DoT is with other druids of the same line, as those won't stack due to the empathy/resist debuff components.

    3. Skin to Sumak doesn't have stacking issues with other damage amplifications or debuffs, but it does have a body type limiter. So it will not land on any undead, construct, plant etc. It works on humanoid and animals only.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  9. Szilent Augur

    Breath and Sumac's damage focus effects are obsoleted by new Season's Wrath AA that has duration and reuse matching so it can be on all the time. SPA296 multiplier debuff is "strongest works."

    This can be tested pretty easily on guild hall combat dummies:
    Remove sleeves to eliminate that randomness, and remove weapon+range so procs don't clutter up your window.
    Put on self Wolf & Spire to have consistent (57% SCF + 1% DoN + 18% wolf + 24% spire = 100%) criticals.
    Observe non-Lucky crits or Lucky crits (all hits will be one or the other), don't mash those together
    Observe again with only Sumac debuff on
    Observe again with only Season's debuff on
    Observe again with both debuffs on, Sumac+Seasons

    Numbers go up some when you debuff the dummy with Sumac, and go up by more when you separately debuff with Season's Wrath, but are the same as "Season's Wrath only" when you debuff with both.

    Icerend Breath retains marginal use as a cold RESIST debuff (and also AC debuff marginally benefiting melee) but it will not amplify damage. I do not evaluate that as being worth a spell gem.

    In any fight lasting most of a minute, I think you'll find the SPA267 damage *addition* of Sunray dot to be highly salutary. It is a pre-crit addition, so pretty darn chunky during burns.
    Wulfhere, Sancus, Duder and 2 others like this.
  10. IblisTheMage Augur

    Thank you both so much!
  11. Rolaque Ancient, before the century turned

    Your cold aura will fire with every dps spell cast (up to its limit), and will account for about 10% of your dd damage. So cold debuffing specifically for that is worth the spell slot. Each of the other armor or weapon procs contribute less than your cold aura. But added together, they make a significant contribution.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  12. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    I learned a thing today, did not realize SPA 297 didn't stack together. Good to know I can never cast skin again.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  13. Tatanka Augur

    I never had used Season's Wrath before, but seeing the above comment made me go check it out. Didn't realize it's a debuff on the mob, not a buff on you. So, if SW is down, and you target a new mob, you might use skin in that case.

    Highly situational I know, but you never know.

    The other situation is where there are adds. You can throw skin on the adds, assuming others are DPSing those already. Skin has a 1.5s recast (just the GCD), so you can put it on a lot of mobs at the same time.
  14. Szilent Augur

    The value of tanking debuffs (Clasp of Ro, Restless Frost) goes up when healing is spread. The value of dps debuffs (Breath, Skin) goes down when dps is spread.
    Sancus and Wulfhere like this.
  15. Rolaque Ancient, before the century turned

    How many dots you want to stack will depend on how fast your group kills, and whether you can regen your mana before the next mob. You will quickly figure out which dot(s) you should be using for the type of camp you're doing. If you were just playing your druid in a group it would be a different matter. But you're trying to build some general schemes which work well for your boxing.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  16. Nylrem Augur

    I run a fairly similar crew, (sk, clr, dru, mag x3) and have my druid spam multibind of NFW > remote > summer sunshock > roar > roar, with ro, season's wrath, and the 3 nuke AA in spam social.

    season's wrath only up every other mob, generally.

    Almost never gets to recast timer of NFW on a trash mob.

    Whoever was talking about a DoT macro I would have to guess does not have a high DPS group. 20-30s kills, you do not want to run any other DoTs than NFW, in my opinion. Too mana intensive, for wasting 3/4 of the dot potential damage due to mob dead already.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  17. IblisTheMage Augur

    Thanks, roar - roar, is that the lvl - 5 version?
  18. Szilent Augur

    Tymphonic and Cyclonic Roars are the highest base damage single target nukes. Winter's Wildshock ought to outdamage the Roars for geared-up druids, based on spell procs, but it has to deal with split-element resists. YMMV
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  19. Tucoh Augur

    Interesting thread. I never really got my druid set up properly before i ditched my mage team, there's not much useful info in this post but i figure it's worth the repost. Also it's the one box not recorded and i don't remember my multibind #imhelping
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  20. IblisTheMage Augur

    I also find the combo I am slowly building interresting, because of the resolution of the tankless mage group problem. I am keenly aware that it will never reach melee group levels, and there are some boring elements that I need to deal with:

    - Buff maintenance, short term like nights Endless Terror, and druid alliance for moar healing, but of course also long term.

    - Melee positioning. In order to get the most out of shaman roars, I want everyone to join in on the melee. Switching arround to makeeveryone melee is tiresome, would love it to be part of autoattack...

    With only two mages, I can relatively easy set up a rotation that seperates their RS casts. I am not sure I will bother with mage alliance, it can be triggered with twincasts, and I guess there is some adps even without fulmination, but it needs to be reliable, and trash mobs die fast anyway.

    Healing strategy is 2 HoTs from Shaman, druid alliance as often as possible, and a single target heavy healing shaman, after dots and debufs. A group rune pr mob as well, and maybe I will craft heal tar tar weapons for the pets, if I feel I will need more healing; but right now I doubt it.

    In my initial trials, the two HoTs are enough, but I am not in hard zones yet, still leveling some of the toons...

    Since everyone chains swarm pets, especially the shaman can produce a lot. When chain pulling I feel very confidently above the 15 pet limit for Many. The design is that everyone must be able to produce pets, but I might drop druid pets, because of the alternative cost...

    Mana inflow is very good, of course. I use the SK unity that procs mana, mod fods on gcd, enchanter mana, self-mana.

    I am going to cast all adps on cooldown initially, not saving much, if anything. I could save some for nameds, but tbh I don’t expect it to matter much. I hope to break 1m average dps when maxed out, I might be too optimistic, but it looks ok so far, still a long way to go. I am a bit helped by starting dps on pull and careful initial compacting and sequencing of events, on non-summoning mobs. Time will tell.

    I like that I have all major types of utility covered, except perhaps lockpicking.

    I have rotated a BST and a max AA (RoS) bard out, to make space for a druid and a mage. I might cycle them in later, depending on performance and variation.