Druid DoTs taking a hit in new patch

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Raeff the Druid, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. Raeff the Druid Lorekeeper


    No.

    Our best quad kite nuke crits for about 100K -usually less - with tier 1 and some tier 2 EoK gear/focus, and maxed DD AA (except for the new focus line, which adds 8% to that total). And those quad kite spells are 3 - 4 second casts. Slow. Imagine trying to kill current content in that way - yikes!

    Even if the spells hit harder, there is no space to quad kite in most current content. Last place I could kite well was Valley, though I think some tried it on Thuilisaur Island. Despite these previous comments, there are few druids left out there trying to quad kite. Lack of space, more and more mobs that resist snare or are immune to snare, or mobs that summon, minimal damage per cast - all conspire to make quad kiting a thing of the past.

    .
  2. Raeff the Druid Lorekeeper



    I disagree. Funny that a shaman would pronounce Druid dps to be fine.
  3. Brohg Augur

    That's the Recast column, not the Cast Time column.


    The level 250 trigger is instant? Level 101 Dichotomic Paroxysm is 3sec cast.

    You'll notice maybe that both halves of Dichotomic Winds, Wind of the North and Wind of the South, are "instant" as well.

    Druids were pretty bad for a couple years from Gates through PoR, as were pretty much all caster classes until the advent of TSS spells. Druids had a major catchup then with NFW, Winter's Flame, and Adrenaline. Since then, druids have been fabulous and only become ever more powerful thanks to wide public misperception of that power. #general gets many things wrong, including this. Every serious guild has just as much room for good druids as they have for all the other non-cle/brd classes.

    That you like a part of that power that hasn't had major development since LDoN is unfortunate. That you claim the class hasn't developed, or is somehow behind overall, is silly. This might be the right spot to call for "getting with the times", but "the times" in this case is something like 2004.
    IblisTheMage, Sancus and Kunon like this.
  4. Kunon Augur

    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, that much is clear. You aren't even reading the spell information from EQR right.

    Every single Necro DoT is a base cast time of 3.0 seconds.
    The recast and spell bar lockouts are 1.5 seconds on regular DoTs.
    Recast is12 seconds when fully AA hastened on Swift DoTs.


    Incorrect.

    LMAO, see above.

    Necro Dicho spell is 3.0 second base cast time.
    Once the spell lands, the ranked version of the spell (Level 250 Dicho 1 - 6 which actually does damage) is applied instantly.

    Probably because you did not have a full spell bar full of DoTs and you were not using older versions of some DoT lines that are better than the newer versions of others. Previous to the revamp, DoT damage was (and for Necros still is) paltry. You are aware that Necros use up to 22 DoTs (swap spells while fighting mobs) to do their thing right?

    You are right about one thing, there is absolutely no reason to cast debuffs on mobs in the group game. Even named mobs. If you are doing so, you are doing it wrong. You are much better off just casting DDs (or DoTs) and get the mob dead sooner.

    Given how much people are correcting and informing you about various things, I would say it is factually correct to suggest that you are grossly misinformed/uninformed about a great many things.

    I have long said and many would agree that no one gets their classed nerfed more than the members of that class. This is especially true when it is generally uninformed or unaware members of that class who argue about the state of their class. You are being that person, who unintentionally is trying their hardest to get their class nerfed while fighting against a perceived slight.

    Druids are in a pretty good place right now and have always flown under the radar, you'd probably be amazed at how they compare to other classes when played at the highest levels even before the DoT revamp. Many of us posting in response to you (including other druids) are aware of this, but we can't effectively argue with or correct you without risking a nerf Druids. Most of us don't like nerfs and most have soft spots for Druids for reasons... Push hard enough and some less enlightened members of the community will start posting things that very well could result in undeserved and unneccessary nerfs which would be sad.

    Edit: Damn you Brogh, got in while I was still writing and editing this so as to be less hostile.
  5. Raeff the Druid Lorekeeper

    Wrong.

    Shaman spells (according to eqresource):
    Vengeance of Woe - instant cast
    Serpentil's Venom - 1.5 sec cast, 1.5 recast
    Elsrop's Malady - 1.5 secs cast, 1.5 sec recast
    Skraskus's Curse - 1.5 sec cast, 12 sec recast
    Reef Crawler - 3 sec cast

    More of these are 1.5 sec casting time (or lower) than you suggest. And those faster cast times DO make a difference. If you insist, I will find examples if necro dots that are also faster than druids DoTs.

    In regards my comment about Necro Dicho, you are correct, my error. However, why is the druid Dicho a 4 second cast? 25% slower makes a difference.

    Well, since I am clearly not one of the "good druids" you referenced earlier, I am certain you will discount my opinion, but I beg to differ with your assertion that Druids have been in giod shape since TSS.

    WF still gets resisted frequently (one side or the other), AND is a 3.25 second cast! Geesh! And even when hitting for full, it crits for what? 160 K total? Not great given the frequent resists.

    Funny you suggest NFW when many on this thread are suggesting it be nerfed. While I agree the current NFW is excellent, I don't believe it is OP. More importantly, NFW was weak until the recent LIVE patch.

    To suggest Druids were on pace or on par with other casters beginning with TSS is a gross misstatement. Just look at what Mages could do, and the safety in which they could approach numerous mobs, named, summoning, or root immune. Come on, Druids have not even been in the ball park with mages. Or if group is your game, there is no way you can compare druid to necro dps, or druid to wizard dps. And if heals are your thing, Druids still themselves far behind clerics.

    At some point you must come to admit that, even if you can fill several play styles, if you do ALL of them at a middling or lesser level, the "utility" is lost.

    Druids have been in need of significant improvement. Now that we have gotten SOME of the improvement we need, it doesn't make sense to curtail it now.

    I disagree with your characterization regarding my approach to the game. The reason druids have disappeared is because of the change to healer and nuke centric play. Prior to that we were always a root/rot class. However, I followed along like everyone else - changing my rotation to include primarily DD, recursive DD, debuffs, and NFW. But the dps of these did not keep us in the middle of the spectrum - rather we fell to the lowest rung. Thus, so few druids left today.

    Really, the class needs more help, not this entrenched cynicism and "Oh you're fine!" (while you scoff in private) kind of attitude. And your arrogant, I-know-better-than you tone is unnecessary, though I am sure you are enjoying pointing out my errors.

    Not sure why non-druids have such strong opinions in regards druid dps and play-style. I am certainly not running around dictating how you should be influencing the future of your class.
  6. Raeff the Druid Lorekeeper

    I have admitted my error in regards Necro Dicho. I will also concede my error in regards cast time of the other Necro DoTs. But I stand by my recent post to Brogh with more detail about the cast time of Shaman DoTs. He was in error there - are you going to lecture him as well? Doubt it!

    However that may be, I do believe long cast times remain an issue for Druids. Doesn't really matter to me whether you agree - especially since you adopt such arrogant rhetoric. Clearly, you are above reproach.

    Of course, I had a full bar of DoTs and cast older versions and did multi-stacking. Where do you get off implying that I don't know these essential techniques? Ah, that's right - you are superior and above reproach.

    And, yes, I know that necros change spell sets frequently in the middle of combat. But again, thank you so much for instructing me, O Wise One!

    If you are prepared to get off your high horse and look at things anew, perhaps you will see reason and find ways to support the class you supposedly have a soft spot for.

    So, far, all I see is obfuscation of the central issue by picking apart insignificant details of my argument.

    You don't see the forest for the trees - but then again, no surprise, you are above reproach and incapable of error.

    Geesh!
  7. Brohg Augur



    It's not about "druids".
  8. Vrinda Augur

    You know, I've been playing a necro for a lot of years and I've never gotten anything approaching a 6 million dmg tick for one spell under any circumstances. I must be doing it wrong.

    Grats druids?
  9. S33k3r Augur

    I'm uncomfortable with NFW ticking for that large a number. I love the new spell but I would not want to see it downgraded because of how much damage it could tick for if I use the right set of AAs and/or group with an enchanter. Haze should work for all DoTs.

    Before the new DoTs I felt that Druids were in a pretty decent state. On my main or alt Druid I could keep a group alive through most content and provide some useful damage (the reverse is also true that I could provide some decent damage and assist the healer if needed).

    I like the DoT changes but I wished they had started with a more conservative upgrade and then tweaked the spells up. There was no way DBG were going to leave DoTs in their current condition and unlike Shaman we are only seeing 2 of our 6 DoTs get a downgrade.
  10. Slippry Augur

    Who cares what one tick of a dot does? WOW! L00k! BIG NUMBER! It's your dps for a mob, event, lesson burn, or exp group that matters. Looking at your highest crit number is just pointless wanking over a useless number instead of trying to be actually effective.

    Of course necros aren't critting for that much, their dot damage is still spread out over 20 spells because they haven't gotten a dot revamp yet. (Thanks Aristo!) If their dots ever get changed, I fully expect pyres or swiftdots to be able to crit in that range.

    I haven't been able to complete against the other tier 2-3 dps in RoI since early in TBM. Way back then, I was able to complete against some DPS classes, but following the manaburn nerf, and some other adjustments, my burn was matching up with wizard sustain. Now my burn is able to match up with other tier 2-3 dps classes, if I'm willing to devote 18 spell slots to doing my raid role, plus dpsing.
    fransisco, Sindaiann and gotwar like this.
  11. Skvoid Elder

    I think the point is druids are doing competitive dps with pure dps classes while providing adps and healing. I don't know if you raid but druids in good guilds are doing pretty well on parses for certain events where they can spend a little more time dpsing than healing. I like that druids can DPS, just feel it's maybe a little high compared to classes whose only and primary role is providing damage on a raid.
    Sindaiann likes this.
  12. ~Mills~ Augur

    Yeah because reliably dropping 3-6 million damage in a single tic as a non dps class isn't an issue. Its just a big number we should ignore we should also ignore that it might take an actual dps class 20 seconds or more to catch up to that single tic from a priest.
  13. Raccoo Augur

    Revamps were supposed to help fix the buff limit on raid mobs...but it didn't. Maybe another solution would be to have dots that bounce on mobs because they were buff locked, buff the caster with something to increase the damage of the dots that did land?
  14. Rolaque Augur

    A dot with a 54 second duration (9 tics) does damage how many times?
    Correct answer = 10
    A simple test will verifies that.
    You should understand how dot damage works before analyzing and dissecting it.
  15. Slippry Augur

    If your tier 1 dps classes are losing to druids, they're either bad or had problems like dying, or lack of adps.

    If I'm able to devote myself to dps on an event, I can place around the other classes who have roles of dps+utility. The more time and spell slots I have to devote to healing and debuffing, the lower I slip in dps rankings. Feels nice to actually be the personal dps priest with a level of dps that matters on raids.
  16. Raccoo Augur

    The grasp line of spells is base 6 sec casting time. Which is why I don't know any necros that use them.
  17. Sheex Augur

    Only if by "new play skill-sets" you mean...grouping with people (and mercs)? Some things in the game change, but as always, adapting to content/abilities is a mark of a good player.

    It seems to me like you'd be better off starting a thread asking for alternate exp methods (root rotting, quadding, fear kiting, etc) to be decent again, and that they should give us content that plays to those styles.

    You might have better luck and/or actually get some community agreement that way. For example, I think it's dumb that pet tanking has become so much more viable than kiting in the modern era. They should both be reasonable options.

    Instead, you opted to complain about them bringing superdots back to earth after the original implementation had them in a fairly crazy state, which doesn't garner much sympathy, especially from classes stil waiting on theirs ^ . ^
  18. Ninelder Augur

    I can't speak for the all druids but before the dot revamp the only dots I ever memmed was sunray(a debuff) and NFW.

    Now that the revamp is being nerfed, I will never use those other dots again. It was a neat change for a few weeks, and now dots are useless again. We should all just enjoy the fact that things were interesting for a few weeks before going back to same old same old.
  19. Sindaiann Augur

    Nothing changed with Natures Fiery Wrath.....lol

    Do your homework
    Slippry likes this.
  20. matouoli Lorekeeper

    GIFT of MANA audio trigger FTW :)

    btw ,there are 2 different gift of mana procs :

    one is from 96 to 105 and the other one 101 to 105

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