Druid AA chat recap

Discussion in 'Priests' started by Tarrin, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. Tarrin Augur

    Can anyone sum the main points up?

    Skimmed through the log, and all I really saw was a lot of " no, you don't get a unique way to heal, you need to keep being a 'dps priest' that has to be EITHER healing OR dps ". which is honestly....lame.

    Did anything positive happen that is really...noteworthy?

    WTB more remote usage :(
  2. Iila Augur

    We're a class that focuses on burst heals, and nukes, with a side of caster adps. And a community that LOVES nukeheals.

    We're not allowed to ask for heals, nukes, caster adps or nukeheals.
  3. Tobynn Augur

    Edited~!

    Yes
    [16:40] <illa> DoT disc
    [16:41] <@Elidroth> ok

    [17:23] <illa> Could we get another rank of Nature's Fury to upgrade the damage/lower mana penalty?
    [17:23] <@Elidroth> Yeah I can take that down a little bit


    Possible
    [16:39] <illa> Blessing of Ro totem
    [16:40] <@Elidroth> doable

    [17:12] <illa> How about anti-summoned mirrors of clr's anti-undead AAs?
    [17:12] <@Elidroth> Maybe?

    [17:16] <illa> Wrath of the Wild's effect, Can it get a better proc mod and resist mod so it can land?
    [17:16] <@Elidroth> I'll look into the proc mod

    [17:29] <illa> how about some cheap hastened or ranks of lower recast on Secondary Recall and tertiary recall?
    [17:32] <@Elidroth> I'll look into it

    [17:33] <illa> reduced cast time on teleport spells
    [17:33] <@Elidroth> I'll discuss it with the team

    [17:35] <illa> an AE version of blessing of ro
    [17:35] <@Elidroth> possible

    [17:38] <illa> A pbae heal around our target?
    [17:42] <@Elidroth> Aristo and I have to discuss

    [17:57] <illa> Could we get a rank or two of that AA that extends dots by one tick?
    [18:05] <@Elidroth> DOT extension is doable

    [18:06] <Elrodo> any chance we could get a slight resist adj on storm strike?
    [18:07] <@Elidroth> can look at it


    Ain't Happenin'
    [16:34] <illa> reduce 24s recast timer on our Remote Sunfire line
    [16:35] <@Elidroth> No

    [16:36] <illa> Alternate version of Storm Strike that procs a heal on the target's target
    [16:36] <@Elidroth> No

    [16:42] <illa> mistwalk, can we get a second rank to improve the range a bit? and some ranks for hastened for it?
    [16:43] <@Elidroth> No

    [16:44] <illa> If a nuke-heal storm strike isn't ok, could we get a fire flavored version?
    [16:46] <@Elidroth> No

    [16:48] <illa> Something to use during gem downtime while healing a player
    [16:50] <@Elidroth> Not really a fan of that

    [16:53] <illa> Improved tracking
    [16:54] <@Elidroth> We're happy with where tracking is right now

    [16:55] <illa> Add +DoT crit chance to our black wolf lines
    [16:56] <@Elidroth> No

    [16:56] <illa> Is there a dot mod that could be added to black wolf
    [16:58] <@Elidroth> No

    [16:58] <illa> how about adding a Heal over Time crit chance to White Wolf lines
    [17:00] <@Elidroth> No

    [17:01] <illa> Can our additional bind points be options to respawn at after death?
    [17:02] <@Elidroth> Not possible.

    [17:02] <illa> can we get group ports to our 2nd and 3rd bind points?
    [17:02] <@Elidroth> Was asked for other classes already

    [17:03] <illa> Twincast Rk3 as an AA
    [17:04] <@Elidroth> No

    [17:05] <illa> Can we get Nature's Boon (AE heal totem) upgraded to healing a relevant amount for current content?
    [17:06] <@Elidroth> it'll never be a method of any "real" heals

    [17:10] <illa> Since we're up to 265 forage now, can we forage 3 things at once instead of 2?
    [17:11] <@Elidroth> I have no control over that

    [17:13] <illa> Invis vs Undead, self only?
    [17:14] <@Elidroth> we don't want to do that

    [17:18] <illa> Spirit of the Bear currently doesn't take hold on tanks using discs/spells that are used while tanking
    [17:21] <@Elidroth> Not everything is going to stack with everything

    [17:25] <illa> How about support AAs for our new season's wrath?
    [17:25] <@Elidroth> Not this expansion

    [17:26] <illa> Could we get another rank of fortified survival?
    [17:27] <@Elidroth> I'd rather not

    [17:29] <illa> is it possible for failed gates to reset the timer on our AA gates?
    [17:29] <@Elidroth> No

    [17:43] <illa> Could we get 1 more rank of each of hastened lunar healing and hastened entrap
    [17:46] <@Elidroth> No

    [17:51] <illa> A killshot AA that procs a 1 charge twincast into the song window
    [17:51] <@Elidroth> Not possible

    [18:07] <Lainey> is it possible for us to get etheral weave for us?
    [18:12] <@Elidroth> no

    [18:17] <illa> Another level of swarm of fireflies
    [18:18] <@Elidroth> I hadn't planned on upgrading those types of abilities

    [18:22] <illa> our hidden cheetah aa puts the invis and runspeed into one buff so if invis break, you lose the runspeed
    [18:23] <@Elidroth> that's part of the deal

    [18:24] <illa> Innate chance for DDs/Dots to proc a heal on the target's target
    [18:29] <@Elidroth> don't want to do that

    [18:30] <illa> An upgrade to flight of eagles
    [18:34] <@Elidroth> No

    [18:34] <Lifeshriek> duration extension for the blackwolf/white wolf lines
    [18:36] <@Elidroth> they last long enough right now
    guado likes this.
  4. Tobynn Augur

    [17:02] <illa> can we get group ports to our 2nd and 3rd bind points?
    [17:02] <@Elidroth> Was asked for other classes already

    ^^ that's my favorite part.

    We've been asking for a group port to 2nd bind since Omens of War, but now it seems since "other classes" have asked for it, we can't have it? Yay us! Gratz wizards, and some other class too, I guess.
  5. Iila Augur

    I guess shm used up all the teleport AAs when they asked for egress and secondary bind.

    Wiz chat was today, and they also asked for group port to 2nd bind. (We both ask every year, and if one of us gets it, we both get it.)
    <Axxius> utility: is TL to wizard's bind still impossible for code reasons?
    <@Elidroth> Yes
    <Axxius> how about Teleport Secondary Bind (group port to 2nd bind point)?
    <@Elidroth> It will send everyone to their secondary bind
    <Axxius> no no, similar to Teleport Bind that ports the group to my bind
    <Axxius> the same but for the 2nd bind
    <@Elidroth> Hmmm
    <@Elidroth> Can try it.. Not sure if it will work
  6. guado Augur

    It puts me off a little that he doesn't like nuke/heals or spells that proc multiple spells, yet perhaps the most cast spells by all classes ARE unity spells (buffs).
  7. Perplexed Augur

    [17:05] <illa> Can we get Nature's Boon (AE heal totem) upgraded to healing a relevant amount for current content?
    [17:06] <@Elidroth> I'm looking at upping the heal amount but it'll never be a method of any "real" heals
    I got a good laugh from that response.
    Other than the laugh, I didn't get much else from reading it.
  8. Zahrym Augur

    Drop the lore plz, you act like this an MMO developer discussion about your online fantasy characters ability to have fun or something.
  9. Iila Augur

    Why don't you go roleplay about it.
    Zahrym likes this.
  10. Tarrin Augur

    I keep looking for a reason to get back into EQ. I just don't have it in me to be a "casual". I am all or nothing. It's my personality type. I don't believe in moderation.

    Then stuff like this happens, and I start to lose what fight I had in me.
  11. Siwin Nonesuch Elder

    Lila was like the Only druid who showed up to that chat with Elidroth? heh!
    I wanted to try and make that chat but couldn't and even if I was home to be able too, it seems like we never get what we asked for.
    Of course the one thing I really wanted to ask for, Lila asked, and I thank you :)
    1. [22:17] <illa> Wrath of the Wild's effect, [38074] Diminshing Blows does not proc very often, and is resisted a lot when it does proc. Can it get a better proc mod and resist mod so it can land?
    2. [22:17] <@Elidroth> I'll look into the proc mod.. the resists can definitely be adjusted
    The other thing I would have liked to ask him about was the idea I had last year for an AA for some sort of added spell haste AA that goe's over the 50% limit for X amount duration. I still think its a good idea and any class that casts spells would like us druids around to hit them with it.
    I'm still not giving up on this idea.

    Class : Druid - Spirit Of The Hummingbird.
    Activated AA. Cast time instant. 18 min Refresh.
    When Activated this ablity provides the user (Hole Group they are in prefered) 1:30 seconds of spell casting overhaste, three ranks.
    Rank one 4%
    Rank two 7%
    Rank three 10%
  12. Iila Augur

    We had a separate chat room and I had a doc of our issues and ideas to run through to keep it orderly and prevent duplicate or wasted questions. I certainly wasn't just going with my ideas, it was a list of ideas and issues saved from the past couple betas, plus suggestions from druids in chat. If you check the full logs, whenever Eli misunderstood something, 3 or 4 other druids would chime in. with support.

    Given that our class spell and AA threads are filled with GIVE US MORE REMOTES, having Eli take a hard No stance on anything remote-like from the start left me flailing a bit.

    It's really aggravating that we have a clear desire to lock on to this theme and direction as a class, and are being ignored and shut down by devs in favor of the schizophrenic 'pile of random stuff' theme we've been running with.
    Dubbo and Soraia like this.
  13. Siwin Nonesuch Elder

    I hear that!!!
    When the new expasion comes out and our spells are copy and pasted, just unlink Remote Moonfire and Sunfire and reduce the casting time on each so we chain cast them one after the other, Moonfire, then Sunfire, then Moonfire is back up, then Sunfire is back up etc etc. :)
    Yeah I know, maybe a bit to much power but one can dream eh? hehe!

    Yeah, I hear that too!!!
    This, in my opinion, is one of the reasons why so many people have stoped playing this game. From all types of the way people play EQ, all the way from High end raiders, Casual raiders, People who only play the group game, and the person who boxs a dozen toons and plays by themselves.

    This is why I just don't really go out of my way to make suggestions or share ideas anymore. I mean, why bother, they are going to do what they want to do.
    Heck, even when they say they will implement something it more often then not doesn't make it into the game, and not just druid stuff either.
  14. Siwin Nonesuch Elder

    Man, I have heard that same exact thing from a LOT of "retirees", from top, high end, best players who have played EQ, who I've tried to talk into coming back and playing.
  15. Crystilla Augur

    I know one of the earlier discussions mentioned when he does things like pass through spells, stuff goes wonky. Druids, shaman and other classes also asked for pass through spells and got turned down flat. He isn't against druids; he's against using that particular mechanism for AA's ... which means we have to focus our efforts on Aristo to get them incorporated.
  16. Iila Augur

    I'm holding off on saying anything about spells till I see beta to know if Aristo listened to anything I said at ff.

    One thing that didn't get into the above summary:

    [14:34:17] <illa> ~60s buff that reduces or removes the 24s recast timer on our Remote Sunfire line (Nukes that proc a HOTT heal). Useful for group named and raids. In full burn mode, removing the recast completely and chain casting Remote Sunfire would do about 75% of our max burn dps, while allowing us to heal slightly faster than normal
    [14:34:17] * ChanServ changes topic to 'Druids are on the clock. Beastlords next.'
    [14:35:37] <@Elidroth> While doable, I'm not sure it's a good idea.
    [14:35:41] <illa> I'm really to solidify our role as dps priest by giving us better tools to combo of healing and dps at the same time
    [14:35:44] <@Elidroth> I'll discuss it with the rest of the team
  17. Tarrin Augur

    The only thing I got from it all is " druids are supposed to heal like a cleric with 1/2 the tools..and don't you dare think about twisting DPS and Healing...even though you are the personal dps priest."

    If I am going to have to make a decision to only heal or only dps..in a raid setting...why would I ever choose to be a druid? Why would I choose to be a class that has limited tools while trying to compete with a class that has a larger tool set? Why would I want to be a class that in order to use my class fully ( the personal dps side ) I must hope the content is trivial?...since dps and healing ( via remotes ) is obviously looked down upon.

    Shamans are able to fulfill their roles of healing and adps for melee at the same time. Why can't druids be given an option to fulfill their roles of healing and personal dps? (through remotes and other forms of healing of target's target usage)

    Remotes are a great way for the druid class to actually grow into its own. It is traditionally a different way to heal, while emphasizing that druids have been the nuking/personal dps priest.

    I just don't understand the wall being put up around any question concerning remotes and target's target healing.
    Iila likes this.
  18. Zahrym Augur


    Why does any Hybrid play one and try (and successfully beat) a lot of 'pure' classes in the same thing really...otherwise no one would ever play a beastlord/ranger.

    The reality is playing a rogue/zerker/monk leaves me bored, I played one for a while...it's literally 2-3 burn 'macros' and 1 spam key. Beastlord/ranger are both endless pages of utility that keep me from being bored...at the end of the day if I utilize them all flawlessly I'll beat any 'pure' dps that doesn't use theirs right.

    "People appreciate what they work." for is a quote favorite of mine for conversations like this, the reality is I work 5x as hard to approach potentially 70% of what another person can do for 1/5th the effort, but when I surpass them it's also 5x more satisfying.

    High risk and High reward is a term often thrown around without much meaning, but it pretty much defines the hybrid classes in this game. You wager that your ability to pre-plan and overall outplay is going to provide substantially more than button mashing on a 'pure' class. This is why I both agree and disagree with the style. I enjoy it personally, as do countless others...but the risk vs reward just really isn't high enough to make those classes widely viable. Otherwise it would be 8 druids 3 clerics per raid instead of 8 clerics 3 druids per raid.

    It would be 8 beastlords or rangers per 3 melee groups, and not 8 rogues. I personally don't have an answer to the class imbalance in terms of per capita numbers, but I keep asking for things to make it higher risk vs reward anyway, even if we do hear no most of the time.
  19. Iila Augur

    We know we're not going to be competitive with equally skilled DPS classes. Our old nuke parity with mages is long gone. The best I can really hope for on non-ae parses in RoI is 50% of the dps of whatever class is good at that fight duration. In some fights it's closer to 30%. Nothing is really going to change there, our nuke damage isn't going to double nor are our discs going to get a huge increase. And like Tarrin says, I only get to do that on trivial content.

    And sitting there in the middle of our two spell sets is the Remote Sunfire line, promising the gameplay we want. Our own niche of game mechanics to specialize in that doesn't increase our total healing or dps above classes specialized in those areas.
    Bolo likes this.
  20. Zahrym Augur

    Ya, it would bring a new dimension to the class, one they need imo. It's a fun class but really lacks the niche.

    Hopefully maybe some others can assist in getting this voiced a little more loudly and maybe listened too.
    Bolo likes this.

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