I'm in Cicelee's Hot Take Camp as well. I think Druids have some thought they need to put in as a result of the mana shortage, and that's a great thing. Numerous other classes have mana galore and tons of unused mana recovery tools (some of which would benefit druid, but aren't used because those folks don't need mana themselves or aren't aware of the druid mana shortage.) All that said, I hate the mana bear tool. My druid spell bar has more issues than any other class I've played and bear is contributing.
The observation that the spell line is expensive in no way disregards how useful it is. These are not mutually exclusive.
I'm also on team "mana conservation is good". Running six characters makes this a littttle easy for me to say because I can be more resilient to mana starvation than someone trying to molo, but I still think it's an important part to EQ and mana-based gameplay in general. The amount of group mana that some classes generate and self mana that others generate is ridiculous and trivializes mana concerns in a lot of encounters.
While having basically infinite mana is a bad thing I in no way think what druids have to put up with should be the norm. That's too far in the other direction. And for those classes where having too much mana is most egregious. I imagine we'll see new threads posted shortly asking for mana costs to be increased to address the problem?
I started naming classes (the ones i play) and erased it because I don't want to get banned from the forums again! But yeah, those changes would improve the game even folks weren't as mana starved as druids.
Agreed. No one here is asking to have other classes nerfed. There was an initial post that said "hey, I noticed that all other DPS mana users get a spell, an AA and sometimes even a third 'trick' to regain mana unique to their class, maybe druids should have that looked at and gain an AA ability and have the mana return looked at on their spell ability" - paraphrased. It was met with hostility because druids can do DPS now? I "think" the OP is looking at ways to get back in the fight after a death or maybe running completely OOM despite using all the mana conservation tools....that are also available to all classes. Personally, I don't think any class should be in the boat of "use x item from 8-10 expansions ago in perpetuity". This goes for: 7/8 augmentations that have no mana/hp/heroics/spell dmg/heal amt/clair/mana regen/hp regen etc In this category you could say druids are sacrificing 2-3 of their 7/8 aug slots (evocation, conjuration and maaaybe alteration) Brell's aug for a 3-4th slot Tome of Obulus for the mana return proc Saw someone in another thread recommend a BP from HH seb It wasn't good for the game for necromancers to wield their epic, actually wearing it for 20 years....the above hasn't been good for the druid class either.
For Wizards, I'm still trying to get our dicho to be worth using. Assuming that happens the extra 30k nuke will make it a little more interesting for us. And I'd say beams in general should probably cost more mana. But yeah I'd name classes and be more specific but I know that wouldn't go over well and with a lot of the same people who think druids are fine.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=128591 is also arguably BiS for the bard too, since it helps bard's mana regen (or at least did when I tested it...). I don't use it out of principal. I actually think it's kind of cool how in EQ once you get "combat ready" with modern levels/gear/AAs you still have 22 years of archaeological digs to get through to have a complete character. The necro epic is the most egregious example of this, but I don't think it's a bad thing that a new character has a bunch of old content to work through if they want that extra edge.
We disagree. I don't think it is good for the game or to punish certain classes so that they "want" to wear an item that is 10,952 mana, 10,265 hit points LESS than the current BiS piece of gear....for a drop in the bucket of mana regen? By my math it would take nearly 13 minutes to regen the mana "lost" by wearing the older gear. https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=143240 So I think if the developers want those power pieces to be a part of the game, then they should be "refreshed" every 3-5 years with improvements. Make the newest expansion have a type 7/8 slot that sacrifices "some" stats that a druid may not care as much about, like AC for having 15% max of 45 or maybe even increase it to 50... but having all the normal HME/spelldmg/healamount/etc of a current aug. I'll add this, I used to play a druid for 15 years, love druids, but I would not want to go back to it, despite "all the dps". Healing for a druid is trash in comparison to other classes, casting time for everything is soooo slow. Tunics and Tomes from 7 expansions ago, belong to the tribute master. I'll be here waiting for an example that is comparable on a warrior, since you're the second warrior to come in and suggest druids wear old gear. Show me the BP that warriors should be rocking 100% from 7 years ago. Looking for at least 3-4 aug examples as well. I'm already aware of Frosty Gem.
That was me Allayna. Right Tucoh, both my druid (115) and bard (113) still wear if for an extra 85 mana regen because the rest of their armor fulfills that extra mana regen cap space. It's a great item for the two most mana starved classes. At some point they will outgrow it surely. ps: my bard gets only 87 (of 93 on item) mana regen from the tunic so there is still overcap mana regen left on the table that I could work on via heroic AA. I think another +100 SPA 318 from somewhere would be good for many classes given the wasted itemization values.
Good: Needing to do old, high quality content for epic 2.0s or shawl quest to get a small boost that doesn't compete with a really strong item like BP / weapons. Bad: Needing to do lame content like LDON raids for the shield aug or CotF instances for the spell casting proficiency augs or having to wield a gross old epic / BP. What separates good vs bad is debatable, but I like some of the legacy stuff. A good question is whether DPG wants players to feel motivated to do certain old content in current year. There isn't enough in the budget to refresh everything in 3-5 years. Does DPG want players to feel motivated to do Tears of Alaris? Probably not. Old epics? most certainly.
2.0s for "some" classes are still useful: SKs, Bards, Shaman are the largest example...for others, they could be completely ignored and not effect the strength of that class. Also...they don't need to be equipped to use them, so they are additive....if the argument was that the BP from Old Seb HH was a click 85/85 cap/mana regen sure... but it requires it to be worn. Do you wear your shawl aug on your warrior? Or was it replaced long ago for something with higher AC value?
Well but itemization at release and in the first 3 expacs provided items that are still unique to this day. Items that fill out certain classes with abilities they will otherwise likely never have. My paladin will always carry a Journeyman's Walking Stick for Tashani (until there is upgrade). Likewise for Anklesmasher (snare), and Zlandicar's Claw (incapacitate), and WIllsapper (slow). Add to that the Darkened malo stick. In any fight where I feel I would benefit from them, I bandolier for a proc (thanks Yaulp) and momentarily loose a lot of dps. The good thing is that I need those procs less and less as the years go by thanks to belt procs, Audicity spells, Helix AA, etc. Am I glad to see these items give way to newer items/abilities? Yes. Do I wish I never had an Anklesmasher? Heck no.
I still use the shawl aug because I'm a sentimental old fool and i like the lag the servers as much as possible.
As a paladin, I carry: Darkened Cone of the Mystic - No dmg wep The Crippler - Cripple Proc Fabled Journeyman's Walking Stick - Tash Hammer of the War Machine - Slow Darkened Journeyman's Walking Stick - Malo I too, in a solo or in unique settings "can" swap to them "briefly" to apply slow, cripple, tash, malo or no damage tank something. The difference here is talking about brief use of a proc and wearing an item in perpetuity. Do I ever have to swap to those in raids to maintain my survivability, I can't saw never, because the no dmg tanking may be needed for achievements or some special mechanic... Is my class reliant on having each of those to maintain my role? Absolutely not. All of this is still a distraction from: Every caster class has a spell/AA way to get mana back, druids have just a spell.
I agree that's it's probably poor design when gear choices stick for a great many levels and years. I agree with your math on the tunic with the caveat that it doesn't cost a platinum investment to acquire. For the druid it's probably past time to spend 20k plat on a new group tunic. For the bard and charm kiting (fun) for 20-30 minutes at a stretch, mana regen is still more valuable I believe. When another tunic can give my bard 85-93 mana regen that will be nice. The tunic might always be situation-ally used though.
You equating your 9th string alt druid to a raiding main and talking about 20K platinum being a deciding factor let's me know just how out of touch with this conversation you are. You're also neglecting the fact that HH Old Seb is a once a year limited time run event, so as a suggestion for something a current raiding druid should attempt to acquire...it's off base.
OP never said "raid" iirc. You and others should not restrict this thread to raiding druid is my retort.
I compared caster classes' ability to regain large chunks of mana back, outside of regen. Every caster class, including priests, have at least 2 ways to regain large chunks of mana at a time except druids. This is out of balance. I did do a specific druid/shaman comparison because of the priest classes, they are the most similar having both support and offensive roles. I am still wearing items from older content. I have 2 type 8 LDoN spec augs that have no mana/hp/heroics/spell dmg/heal amt/clair/mana regen/hp regen. I would like to upgrade these to the CotF augs, which still lack all of the added stats listed. I would also like to note that I have spent time working on that. I still wear Sacred Prayer Shawl of the Duke, taking up another slot with very low stats compared to today's drops. Is this a group geared druid? Because we're talking about raid gear. I wouldn't expect any group geared warrior to be able to stand a named mob for a current raid. And if they do, hats off to that heal team. I'm going to address all this talk about going back and 'completing your toon' mentality as well. Everything I'm going to list next I use because of something related to mana. I still carry a lot of old content gear on me at all times. Because my heals are timer tied to their lower level versions, also something no other priest class has to deal with, I may have moments when all of my heals are down or I may be oom from a death, a mana drain effect, a long fight. For this reason, I still carry with me Mask of the Ancients and Kelp-Covered Hammer. I also carry with me Kiss of Erollisi Marr. I also have Beast Fur Shaw, Miniature Horn of Unity, and Unified Phoenix Feather for mana regen. I also can take advantage of my fade AA (which now takes 8% of my mana) and use the Lingering Essence of Cazic-Thul that I carry but still have to contend with ooc timer before I hit super mana regen.
In this, you are correct. But I have to ask, you'd expect a casual grouping player to do the level of character investment you and the other warriors have suggested here and in other druid threads?
