Discussion in 'Priests' started by Jack, Dec 29, 2022.
what fights are lasting 40 minutes? i'd probably need 2 staunches as a druid!
Druids have a unique mana regen ability in their Mask line of spells. It seems to me that the easiest way for Devs to address this would be to increase the mana regen per tick on the Mask spells to be more on-par with current game environment and mana expenditure. Seems logical that this would be an easy solution and something that could be done without too much effort within the game itself. I have a druid and can confirm that some of their spells are absolute mana sponges (Nature's Blazing XYZ line anyone?) It seems a bit far-fetched that the only active way for druids recuperating mana in the current game is by growing a bear cub for a few minutes while other classes have a more direct approach. Boosting the Mask line of spells, OR creating a focus AA that increases the quality of your Mask regen in a meaningful/impactful way, would be the most simple solution(s).
That line of spells is only a "mana sponge" if one dismisses how productive the spell is.
Gotta say…fairly disappointed seeing no further reply. Can’t be the only one?
Your arithmetic has ignored that your druid has mana regen benefit - the same kind of benefit - from Expansive Mind AA. The Inventory Stats page (according to your reporting; I didn't check up on you.) may not give a hoot about SPA318. If you've found a way to reliably test ticks of actual mana regeneration in game, and characters actually aren't benefiting from SPA318, then that's definitely a bug. You should report that evidence in the bug forum. But if Expansive Mind's SPA318 is working, then my expectation is that Hero's Resolution's SPA318 is also. Irrespective of the Inventory Stats page.
I may be misunderstanding your use of the word "naked". If you mean that you've removed all your gear, then neither AA's SPA318 benefit will be operating, since you will have 0 worn mana regen.
Druid Mana regen is pretty poor. Especially if killed in raids due to the cooldown on fast regen. The mana bear has one of the worst mechanics in the game and isnt really in keeping of the class (imo). I dont think they even put a mana re-couping proc on the priest weapons, but I may be wrong about that.
Druids are (supposed to be) at one with nature - so take away the bear, give them a harvest-like ability.
Alright, I'll bite. Assuming you misunderstood naked means with zero gear, no buffs, despite saying so here:
I "ignored" the mana regen benefit from Expansive Mind AA because as you stated, it is SPA318 or a worn mana regen CAP.
Worn Mana Regen CAP does nothing if I'm not wearing anything.
If my standing combat mana regen is 3 and I had 45 points in Expansive Mind and was naked...my standing combat mana regen would still be 3. The additional points in mana regen comes from Mental Clarity...not from expansive mind, which only raises the cap.
Likewise, if I'm wearing, let's say 363 worn mana regen.
45 mana regen from mental clarity + 132 mana regen from Knowledge of the Past 26 shadow buff + 86 mana regen from Hero's Resolution still equals 263.
BUT, now I have 2544 heroic wisdom. 2544/25 = 101 additional mana regen.
363 worn mana regen, clearly over cap.
101 additional mana regen from heroic wisdom
263 mana regen from AAs listed above.
727 final mana regen, unbuffed.
513 is combat mana regen listed.
Reiterating that the SPA318 that you list, doesn't add 45 more in the case of Expansive Mind or 86 more in the case of Hero's Resolution, but only adds to the cap amount, for a total of 45 mana regen from Mental Clarity and Expansive Mind together....and a total of 86 from Hero's Resolution.
I think this is where your misunderstand is coming from, worn mana regen cap and innate mana regen from AAs etc are completely different and not additive. Like hero's resolution, having a cap increase of 86 for HME and a regen to HME of 86. The cap increase allows room for the regen...so it's 86, not 172.
As to all the other "it's a bug, the stats page isn't reliable, you can't actually count mana regen reliably..." in your post. Since I've done the lion's share of the labor in discounting your "evidence" that druids don't need more mana regen or at least a secondary way to recoup mana quickly, I'll let you do some actual reflection and work to prove otherwise.
But here we are, a paladin who dr0oded for far longer in my gaming history and ....a warrior? Arguing about mana regen/abilities amongst druids.
oh man, now you're coopting agriculture as nature? I dunnnnnnooooo
Yeah if Mental Clarity is being *constrained* by lack of Expansive Mind, that's definitely a bug. There is no cap on SPA15 mana regen , just on Worn mana regen. SPA318 is intended to, and according to my quick test using /resetaa on Test server does in fact, allow more benefit from Worn mana regen. Training each AA , with and without each other, raises mana regen if a character is equipped. SPA318 will do nothing for a character with no equipped Mana Regen items. Tested that real quick & easy, too.
Did the same.
423 combat mana regen after the /resetaa command.
Purchasing only mental clarity 45/45.
Now at 467.
467 - 45 = 422.
512 after purchasing all ranks of expansive mind.
512 - 90 = 422.
513 after purchasing all ranks of pottery mastery for some reason. I'm guessing from an extra heroic wisdom bump related to the Artisan's prize.
Disabling Knowledge of the Past 26 brought me down to 381.
Stripping back to naked, buff-less but now also without Knowledge of the Past = 134 mana regen with the expansive mind and mental clarity and hero's resolution.
Putting in my earring with 30 worn mana regen = 172.
224 heroic wisdom. 224/25 = 8 mana regen from heroic wisdom.
172 worn mana regen with 1 item with 30 worn mana regen - the 30 worn mana regen - 8 mana regen from the heroic wisdom on the item =
134 mana regen
45 mana regen from Mental Clarity + 86 mana regen from Hero's Resolution = 131 mana regen.
Leaving 3 mana regen somewhere from level 1 - 120...
BUT definitely does not additively increase your mana regen by 90 for expansive mind and mental clarity if you are not already sitting at the cap.
Also. We're absolutely splitting hairs, 45/90/172 mana / tick argument is not addressing the real issues here and in the OP thread.
Let's say I'm wrong....proved I'm not, but let's say, you're talking about an additional 45 mana regen from expansive mind and an additional 86 from Hero's Resolution for a total of 131 mana per tick that every single class has access to.
How does that address the after death or sustained fight mana problems of a druid specifically?
Every - *every* - druid is already sitting at the cap. I had to make a new profile for the ToV-CoV Collects mule I own who has level 100 AA filled but still wearing 100% level 85 Heroic armor with no augments, to see a character that isn't capped on Worn Mana Regen. She's 57/60; a single loot of any kind or augment of any kind would put her past her cap. SPA318 is, for *all* intents and purposes, additional mana regen.
513 combat mana regen.
101 mana regen from heroic wisdom = 2544/25
363 mana regen from worn items.
45 mana regen from mental clarity.
86 mana regen from hero's resolution.
132 mana regen from Knowledge of the Past 26.
101 + 363 + 45 + 86 + 132 = 727 mana regen.
Yet. I have 513 combat mana regen. So that additional "cap" regen doesn't "add" an additional 131 like you claim. So for all intents and purposes....it isn't additive mana regen how you are misrepresenting it.
So we're just gonna continue to ignore that this is something that every class has and has access to and arguing over....what was it 131 mana regen difference between our points...is pretty weak.
I do appreciate you....pushing me to reset AA on test saw an easy solution. Add 5 additional ranks to Spell Casting Mastery at 200 AA per rank, 1% additional mana preservation per rank.
Add an instant cast, 5 minute reuse AA that restores 45K mana. (That's less than half the mana that a shaman can restore in more than double the reuse)
Unlink the heals from their timers.
Add a splash.
Add a HoT.
Eliminate the bear altogether.
So, you've been talking A LOT about mana regen. Nowhere in my OP was I talking about mana regen. I was comparing caster classes' ability to cast a spell or use an AA that allows them to regain a large chunk of mana at once. EVERY SINGLE CASTER CLASS is already using all of the mana regen AA, self buffs, worn gear, augs, and player buffs you have mentioned. In addition to all of these things that everyone is already using, they also have 2, TWO (a spell and an AA) abilities that allows them to instantly regain mana without having the possibility that their insta mana recoup ability could be killed early, lessening their regained mana amount. Shaman not only have their cannibalization AA and their canni spell they can ALSO use their hit point pool to cast from with Spiritual Channeling stacking HS instead of HW.
All of this! Though I'm not opposed to keeping Boo, just over hauling the line. I don't see why, with every other class having multiple ways to gather mana back, druids shouldn't as well.
if that's accurate, then your 363 from worn items includes 45 that would otherwise be unavailable if you lacked Expansive Mind. It includes 86 that would be unavailable if you lacked Hero's Resolution.
Yaulps and Netherside are mana regen, muddying the picture you were trying to paint. Concision, in my opinion, would serve you better:
Booboo has failed to scale appropriately in his role because the Exuberance proc hasn't gone up alongside Replenishment.
Sideline, full cleared ToL tonight, no Druid`s wards appear to have taken any damage from anything. I recall healing wards being killable for all priests sometimes in the past and that was fixed. The concern over Booboo's mortality may be an anachronistic one now. I think as long as the druid lives out the minute, the Replenishment is a sure thing.
I'm glad you finally agree that it is 45 total mana increase for expansive mind/mental clarity and 86 total for Hero's Resolution. It was big of you to finally admit that.
This all is still distracting from the fact that comparable classes get 92K mana every 2 minutes, heal better and DPS on par with druids...
but you continue to fight against any improvements to druids for some reason, odd stance to take as a warrior.
Did Szilent make the "no heal" list for his druid circle?
that's not at all what I wrote there. Your 363 is disguising the sum of your natural, capped worn mana regen, plus the bit that fits because Expansive Mind increases the cap using spa318 by 45, and the bit that fits because Hero's Resolution increases the cap using spa318 by 86.
Separately, Mental Clarity increases your mana regen by its spa15 boost of 45, and Hero's Resolution increases your mana regen by its spa15 boost of 86. These are direct boosts, they are not subject to any cap.
The spa15 and spa318 benefits are separately effective. Hero's Resolution includes both sorts.
This situation is entirely analogous to how Combat Stability raises the AC softcap using spa259, Combat Agility raises evasion using spa172, and Physical Enhancement does both, spa259 and spa172. One AA, does two things. Hero's Resolution s'happens to do seven things, but we're only discussing two of them.
Let's just get back on topic.
Given how strong Shaman are it's hard to argue against making some improvement for Druids. Even if it's just making the bear better. Or maybe tying healing into mana regen somehow to incentivize a balance.
Druid mana regeneration is fine. It is other classes that seem to have an endless amount of mana that should be looked at. Mana used to be important- a great caster could manage his/her mana and maximize their output. Nowadays some classes never look at their blue bar and just go hog wild without recourse.
Or is the game in a state where everyone should have unlimited mana and endurance? If so then why even bother with mana costs and such? Take away everyone's blue and yellow bars and have fun!
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