DPS increases in last patch

Wizards have quite the array of AE options at the moment, so i don't know what angle you're coming from. Just to list a few:

Splash of Phenocrysts
Tears of Gosik
Icebound Pillar
Flamelocked Pillar
Magmatic Vent
Tamagrist Torrent
Splash of Pyroxene

Some of these share a CD, so will lock each other out, but they're not without the option to AE atm. On AE events wizards will destroy mages since our beams are currently bugged (and doubt they're going to get fixed even though Absor found out how).

Can't really decide if you're playing dumb? The option of using AE spells as a high-efficiency alternative/upgrades to single target nukes, Enkel.

You said that wizards don't have the AE spell option, I responded with plenty of AE spells that they have.

The thing is, we are forced to use those to compete. They are not and do better.

They AE better then mages currently. As I hinted at in my previous posts. Just because they choose to not use them, does not mean they are not readily available.

The laughable statement is, Wizards Burst better then mages and will win on the night's end ahead of the mage as well. Where Bei called us broken is not the case, and he has not defended his statement yet either. Drawing attention to mana costs vs DMG in comparison to a sustained class is not defending its talking around the subject and not being productive at all.

Quite a lot of that has to do with the Beam nerf though. Our AE went into the basement from the penthouse which made us lose a lot of ground.

For us Spear could never be at the top because using that means we are giving up sustained with no physical way to gain it in Burst.

Enkel, I said so in responding to Piemastaj who was discussing single target dps, in a thread about single target dps. I opine that none of the the alternative reasons for "misunderstanding me" flatter you.

Actually its not fully about single target, their sustained increased as well (Rogues) because of the AE DMG they gained. That was noted in the thread also.

This thread isn't just about single target dps. Have you not seen people complaining about the AE ramifications of Rake's being introduced, the extended duration of Destructive Force, and people upset about Furious Rampage?

The upset that I've seen is entirely about those abilities' impact on single target dps. Their utility as AEs is incidental, and irrelevantly intentional.

SPOILER ALERT! Its a bunch of aggro.

Also, I am confused as to why a wizard would be in here complaining about anything. Must be looking for "bugs".

Zerkers were given Furious as a direct result to increase single target dps lets not pretend we were given it for AE damage the AE part is just to limit its use or cause issues when using it at the wrong time. It was given as a direct result of wizards burning for 250k and sustaining 100k. The real solution should of been to reign in other classes. Instead its a domino effect you boost one class because of another and now you boost the 3rd class because of the 2nd and now its all screwed up.

Also lets not pretend rakes was given for ae damage it was given for the very same reason as furious rampage the AE effect is suppose to be there to limit the situations you can use the disc.

If your tanks are good at holding aggro, it becomes more about the AE than the single target, if you're trying to top the combine. Berserkers try to time their burn in some guilds around massive AE (evantil is a great example) so they can spike for over 1 million dps (usually higher) for a short period of time. So it's affect on single target also spreads to other adds, making it go from "suppose to be there to limit the situations you can use the disc" to "I need to get my adps to hit their stuff during add phases so I can drop 20-30 million damage in 1 minute". So if they included the AE component to limit when it can be used, be thankful, because that AE component is what allows you to be very competitive on the parse, on certain events.

No, you meant TBS, because the spells were nerfed less a week after SoF launched, it would be impossible to have abused them during SoF.

They come very close to doubling Of Many. As I said, it depends on the exact circumstances. If it hits 2 mobs, you get all 4 hits, which is ~60k, which is ~x2 Of Many which is ~30k. Of Many gets 5 hits of SD while Rain gets 4. Rain also doesn't get focus/Core/Union, but it gets a much bigger boost from crits because of the higher base damage.

I have spells that are designed to be sustainable too, and they don't come anywhere near that ratio.

Let's take a look at the raw ratios before any mods take effect:



Just look at that and seriously try to tell me that isn't completely screwed.

If your rains were the same 11.1 ratio, they would have a base mana cost of 5,200 and 5,330.
If your rains were the same 6.3 ratio as your spear, (which is supposed to be your "big nuke" since it's a ripoff of Ethereals), they would have a base mana cost of 9,163 and 9,390.

Just as a reference, this is what Wizard efficiency look like:

Now, that doesn't include all the random procs from claw because I wasn't intending to get that in-depth, but the point should be clear. Your normal nukes are already -very- efficient. The rains are straight up broken, and Of Many is riding the line, (the fact you have to have 15 pets to get full use gives it a bit more leeway than otherwise).

Pillars are worthless, (2.5s cast time that can't be focused means every other AE we have is superior) and they share a timer.

Tears of Gosik, Magmatic Vent, and Tamagrist Torrent all share a timer, Tamagrist is best.

Unsure why your comparing things not modded, probably to show your right?

On paper sure they are more DMG. But honestly who uses paper anymore? It is fully about mods and such. Rains do not Double of many anywhere but your precious spell data. Using your line or argument I am sure lots of things do more DMG then other things, lets leave off any type of mods and play the game that way, no? I am sure melee would probably happy. AEs for example, well they can hit multiple targets but their DMG is quite low compared to other lines of spell data.

As to the increase. Rains were linked together for years. I do believe in HoT or shortly after they un-linked them which is why you see the big jump. SOE intended to make Rains a go to area for Mages. They went from 2.6k to 3.7k going from SoD/UF to HoT. Then for VoA you see 3.7k to about 6.8k. Then to 14k or whatever they are now.

Like I said SOE un-linked them for a reason. They kill me roughly 5-10 times a night on raids, depending on if my tanks are paying attention or not. So yea low mana costs, Risk vs reward is not always that glamorous though. And even with them the way they are, with how well Wizards AE the sustained is pretty much moot with the way raids are now (Add centric).

The thread started with "OMG rogues are too powerful" and now we're on to wiz vs mage wars. See *this* is why rogues are uber... /evade, aka "it's Beimeith's fault, AGAIN" ;-)

/cackle

I mean technically misdirection is your skill right?

Brohg,

While I realize most of this recent argument is from the very top of the top end players, for most magicians Spear IS their top dps spell during many situations.

Generally, any part of any raid with multiple adds, rains are not possible for ~most~ magicians.

RS doesn't twincast, so it only beats spear if it's not twincast plus if the mob's not going to live for at least 20-25s longer than the swarm pet will be at it, then RS is worse dps than spear.

I don't see how even the top end guilds would have 15 pets on trash clearing mobs, to make salvo worthwhile vs those type mobs... Let alone when the magician is only grouping/moloing (yes, I realize we CAN put 15 pets on a mob, but not frequently).

You also implied that Ethereal Incandescence is the 'top of the line' for wizards... During all current situations, Ethereal Incand is at best a wizard's 3rd highest dps spell, ethereal weave and instants both beat it, so does their AE in the right circumstances, and even claw (via adps) if it procs twincast (since you're talking so many 'ifs').

Trying to rank situational DD spells among different classes is pretty ridiculous.

Lets nerf everyone for all to be happy.

If tanks are good to control every mobs when you AE without a single one one shot you, if your guild dont mez mobs, if bst casts fury at same time, if shm/bard in group are synchro to click stuff, then its doing good dps.
The problem is 90% of guilds in EQ cant guarantee all these if.

No guild can. Players are human, therefore errors occur...both larger and more noticeable than anyone will ever admit. Otherwise every player of a similar class would always be within a few % of each in other (margin of error).

Gear is streamlined, everyone's in the same crap. Heroics are streamlined, everyone uses the same crap. The ONLY difference is the players. Six people in a group inside a raid. If you communicate better and sync better you win. EQ has never and likely will never be a hard game. The fact we're arguing about a class that can press one button and drop a 350k burn shows that.

Everyone likes to put stuff on a pedestal and say 'This is my achievement, it's perfect.'

Then a brownie starts pooping out fireballs.