Does Truebox actually solve anything?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Varyk, Mar 13, 2024.

  1. Ddezul Augur

    Rizlona had a BUNCH more big boxers than any True Box server.
  2. NuffanTuit Nuffan Tuit on Innoruuk Server

    Only in your
  3. Trevalon Augur

    Tell us you didn't play pre-truebox without saying you didn't play pre-truebox.

    Anyone who played during those servers knows there is a difference. By "Mass" boxer I consider anything over 6 characters. There are NOT the same number of people playing 7+ characters on Truebox as there are on non-truebox, there just isn't, and to say that there are is either you are uninformed or are being disingenuous. But even if you want to take the "mass" out. There are definitely less 6 boxers than there are with; I consider that a win as well.

    Make 2 servers, I really think that's what they should do. The problem is yall boxers know if they do that that the other server will be more popular, just as it was with Rizlona, but then again who cares? You got your box armies to make up for that.
    Kahna likes this.
  4. Trevalon Augur

    lol, now I know your just being disingenuous. I had thought you were just naive, but no, clearly your just gaslighting.
  5. NuffanTuit Nuffan Tuit on Innoruuk Server

    I played on Innoruuk one of the earliest servers. My last two servers were Fippy 2011 and Oakwynd 2023. Both had the same number of mass box crews. probably the same players in both

    You seem to want to chase this fallacy that non true box has a hundred mass box crews...They don't...They have about 5-7. and maybe that many 6 boxers. And all new servers have them, and true box is where the ones that box more than 6 go because they have customers there....a non box server has no customers for the mass box crews. The fact you do not understand that SCREAMS you are simply anti-boxer and will cling to anything to support your position.
  6. Kahna Augur

    Truebox is far from perfect, no it doesn't stop every boxer, or even every big boxer. But wooooboy does it seriously cut down on them. Ragefire was miserable. Everyone boxed a full group, or at least it felt that way. I was solo, literally the only time I got a group was if a friend dropped their box for me. It was too much. I quit long before Phinny came out because there was so little social interaction without having to wait for Joe-bob to run his army to the camp and try to manage way more toons than he had the capability to do. And Joe was so busy managing his army he had no time to bother with the extra person in his group. I might as well have been paying for a PL. Rizlona was no better. Boring.

    If folks like playing that way, more power to you. It doesn't make for a great server for most folks. I doubt they bother trying it again because they saw how it played out on Riz. I would imagine if they were doing two polar opposite servers this time around it would be FTE and non-FTE. Boxing vs Truebox is so 2020. Besides, it will probably be relaxed truebox anyway, you will get your single computer boxing eventually.
  7. NuffanTuit Nuffan Tuit on Innoruuk Server

    Ragefire was bad because it was pre-pick zones
  8. Kahna Augur

    No. That was not the only reason Ragefire was bad. But thank you for deciding for me why I thought Ragefire was bad.

    Oh, and it wasn't pre-pick zones. Ragefire had picks, it didn't have instances. They started as newbie zones only and expanded to all zones.
    Trevalon likes this.
  9. Trevalon Augur

    Ok, now I can at least say you are not being obstinate and are just uninformed. Since you admit you never played on Ragefire/Lockjaw, then I can forgive you for not understanding what happens when mass boxing gets completely out of control.

    I also played on Fippy/Vulak and while there were definitely boxers, it was nothing, not even close to what Ragefire was. Ragefire was so bad they literally created AoC's to combat it. I remember being in Faceless on Ragefire and that raid leader (whatever his name was, he was an enchanter) and he told us if we werent playing at least 3-5 characters (lets be honest, mages) we might as well just not show up for raids. It was the main reason I quit Ragefire in the end because every single person I knew was being forced into boxing multiple characters to even be able to join in on raids - I had 5 Mages that I hated toting around but felt forced to because otherwise you were not considered as useful.

    Ultimately I quit Ragefire during Velious because it was such sweaty trash to be able to raid and every single server (and I have played them all) has been a huge improvement on gameplay since truebox became a thing.

    I will reiterate and say I respect your right to come here and advocate for a no-truebox server, but I also have the right to advocate for truebox.

    Again....Make 2 servers!!! One Truebox and one without! We will see which one is more popular (hint: it wasn't the boxing server).
  10. NuffanTuit Nuffan Tuit on Innoruuk Server

    AGAIN the reason True Box is more popular is it attracts the no boxing crowd and the mass box crews..

    The crews go there to sell to the whiny no one should ever box it destroys the game crowd.

    Fippy / Vulak did not have krono at launch....Ragefire did.

    I did not play on Ragefire I had a roommate that did.

    True Box does not stop mass boxers...Trying to claim Ragefire PROVES your argument is a fools errand.
  11. Trevalon Augur

    This will probably be my last post because I don't think you grasp what anyone is saying, but I will try one more time.

    Trueboxing does not stop mass boxing (That is Boxing 7+ Characters at 1 time).

    We know this. We have acknowledged this over and over and over again on this forum.

    What Truebox DOES do is it makes it harder for you average Joe to box (It places limits on a large part of the population). Because it does that it means less people are boxing overall and that is the purpose of Truebox. This is evident if you had played past TLPs other than just 2? You really don't have much of a frame of mind if your only experience is Fippy and Oakwynd. What proves my argument is experience on every single TLP since the original Sleeper/Combine in 2006 and having played every single one of them. I have seen it with my own eyes, you, as you admit, never played them so you have absolutely no experience to draw upon. Your literally arguing something you don't even understand cause you were never there when these things happened or were created. We were.

    You argument is that because the big mass boxers will use third party stuff to get around boxing then everyone should be able to. I disagree. I can accept the dumb mass boxers, though I dislike them greatly, but 18 years of playing TLP servers has shown me that they cannot do anything about them or wont. So I accept them as an evil. But the overall purpose of Truebox DOES work, you just don't like it, and fair enough, but I like it and think it should be there. I was literally on this very forum in 2013/14 when we were fighting for Truebox. I fought for it then, I will fight for it now.

    Again, give us 2 servers and let you boxers all go to Rizlona2.0
  12. NuffanTuit Nuffan Tuit on Innoruuk Server

    So then we agree it does nothing to stop mass boxing and only hurt the average boxer...

    FTR I will box two characters on a true box does not stop me just makes no sense as it only means a few less accounts subscribing for the small number of boxers who will not use a 2nd machine.
  13. Kahna Augur

    "Hurting" the average boxer is kind of the point. That restriction does a great deal to limit the prevalence of large scale (6+) boxers, which in turn makes the server a much more enjoyable place to play. You really have to have lived through Ragefire/Lockjaw to understand the massive difference. Ragefire turned into an arms race. So many people boxed a full group there that the ones who initially didn't felt they had to. More and more people felt their only option for enjoying the game was to box their own group to compete/find a group. Even people who didn't like boxing were boxing. By the time I left that server, which was before Kunark launched, the only groups to be found were from a boxer dropping a box, there were basically no pugs anymore. It broke down the interconnectivity that creates the server's community.

    Playing on a truebox server, even with it's faults and imperfections, is a much better experience than playing on a boxing allowed server for anyone who doesn't want to just box their own group and rarely interact with any other humans. Considering how much more popular Aradune was than Rizlona I would say most TLP players fall into that category. They tried a boxing server before. It was not a runaway success. That will discourage them from trying it again.
  14. CdeezNotes Augur

    The average boxer isn't 6+. The average boxer is 2-4 mostly and on live add mercs to the missing spots.

    Aradune was popular but in hindsight it never would be again. The ruleset of Aradune caused one of the most drama-laden and toxic environments I ever witnessed in game. It was pretty terrible until late POP once the recyclers and botters left. It was a constant barrage of complaints, petitions, and arguments all over the server and forums. It became a meme it was so bad. Rizlona type server will undoubtedly beat out an Aradune type server today.

    Truebox servers will always suffer a more toxic krono-driven community. It's because the ruleset allows for cheaters to exploit the normies of the community easier. Limiting boxing allows for people who bypass the rules to have a huge advantage over the rule followers. How you going to compete with 6box botters of necros and mages when you're being physically limited to 2 and those are a war and cleric? You're not. You'll get smoked.
  15. Exmortis_MT Augur

    So for a player that "lived" through lockjaw, also combine, mischief, vanika, oakwynd, and Yekinak I can agree that there may have indeed been a few less mass box armies and possibly a few less 2/3 boxers on truebox. But I will attest that the box armies almost never impeded or interrupted my play, even the 75+ necro army on Lockjaw. But a whole group of individuals sure as hell did, solo, molo or boxed it is the player not the number of boxes. For the record Lockjaw had the worst people to play along side of any server in my long EQ play time since Kunark was released.

    On Vaniki there were so many box teams, however most were actually made up of decent players. Many offered assistance and support when things went a little pear shaped or broke something for me if they saw me struggle. There were jerks to be sure, but out numbered by decency. Really was a good server to play on.

    Yelinak was much the same but I only boxed 3 as two friends joined me. Was a great run until cancer came and stole them away due to the impact on their personal lives. I did not feel like PLing so I left too.

    Currently Oakwynd is more of a goof of time as is Mischief, since I travel a lot i can only play on a Truebox half of my game time. but I see lots of boxes, some are obvious manual players like myself, but when EQb.. third party apps are used it is plainly obvious. I still see lots of boxers and armies, so is it less than Lockjaw? yes. Does it have the same affect on my gameplay? about same yes. I admit play time is limited, one reason I box, go away for a week and everyone I met last week is 15+ levels above me, so easier to just box.

    But I also do not player the same 6 zones, which is another reason why I box, and there maybe a correlation as to why I do not have the same experience. I box to fill out the friend group, and if they do not play my entire group, so we/I can play where/when we want too. But if the new TLP is a Truebox I will be playing 6 boxes alone, my three friends have all stated, if they cannot at least 2 box, they are not playing. So sometimes Truebox means less players, not less boxes.
  16. Kahna Augur

    I doubt a Rizlona type server will be more popular than a truebox (without the stupid 2 character limit). People still have PTSD from Ragefire.

    As for competing with a 6 box on a 2 box. 1. I'm not on a 2 box, but I do have 6 real people in my group. 2. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I have had a conflict with a 6 boxer on any truebox server. That was not at all the case on Ragefire, and on Ragefire I was just a 2 box against a 6 boxer, because all my friends were boxing their own groups to so I had to box if I wanted to try to get anything done, which I couldn't because I couldn't compete with all the 6 boxers.
  17. Bartholomo Journeyman

    So the argument here is that some people think that true box does nothing, and that the same amount of people would box even if it meant they had to buy a dozen PCs to do so. got it.
  18. NuffanTuit Nuffan Tuit on Innoruuk Server

    Actually the big argumant here is a very small number of posters think true box does something to curb the mass boxer...and it does not, finally one of them admitted it does not impact the mass box crews as they have figured out how to defeat true box. It only has a small impact on the average EQ Boxer who can not afford a cheap $100 machine to run a second character on.

    They think they have punished me because I think true box is a I have 2 pc's and two box on Oakwynd. I really do not care one way or the other but love to watch the hypocrisy of you are ruining the game unless we can force you to play like I do crowd...

    They do not want to understand the average EQ player would sub an additional account and play two characters if they could run both from a single machine...because they are afraid of a decade ago server that had lots of bot armies because krono were new and they were all in the same zones. So they lose their mind and SCREAM Ragefire and they do not want to live through that again...and they think True Box is why we no longer have "Magefire"

  19. NuffanTuit Nuffan Tuit on Innoruuk Server

    This is where you are wrong...True Box does not even phase the 6+ box crews. in the slightest.

    The average two boxers it only prevents a few of them from boxing.
  20. CdeezNotes Augur

    The people boxing 12+ are just breaking the rules already. They'll bypass truebox easy enough. It won't dissuade them. With picks and AOCs they'll just go into hiding from public.

    Nobody can effectively box 12 chars without software and automation and most PCs people have for EQ can't handle it. 12 full boxes running on minimum settings is still gonna be resource intensive. Those you see already are using software that can/will not be detected by truebox code.