Does anyone really think Mangler will ever be the hardcore server now?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Daragoth, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Daragoth Lorekeeper

    I think DBG made the casual server WAY to hardcore friendly for them to ever get Mangler back to the true hardcore server.

    What do you think it would take to lure the hardcores over to Mangler?
  2. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Depends how we define hardcore.
  3. Umul Augur

    Lets see what they come up with next!

    I'm sure they'll digest this feedback and make some level of adjustment to the current servers. If they ONLY adjusted mangler to a higher xp rate, doesn't even have to be Rf/Agnarr levels, I'd call it a win.

    Based on prior experience... they'll release these servers then release a new "casual" server when Mangler is in Kunark Lol.
  4. code-zero Augur

    They aren't going to give them anything. That's sort of the idea of being really hard core after all. Harsh XP, harsh death penalty, no focus effects for several expansions. You're going to have to be mentally tough if you raid on that server. And as I'm reading it that's kind of the point
  5. oldkracow 9999 Is the Krono Account Limit

    I'm almost more curious as to how DBG defines hardcore / casual than whatever the server rules become in the end.
  6. Umul Augur

    I agree, but unfortunately the target audience will not be on that server.
  7. code-zero Augur

    I'm wondering if self styled hard core types going for the loot piñata won't be like kids who ate way too much candy before they even get to GoD. Of course once they are there trying to keep a raid schedule going non-stop will be making their eyes bleed.
    Sethiroth likes this.
  8. ShivanAngel Augur

    You could look in one of the 3-4 other posts about this and have your answer.
  9. Elyani Augur

    Honestly, I don't understand how DBG and these "Casuals" define Hardcore. I don't think many of us consider endlessly grinding exp "hardcore". To me, Hardcore is putting in the maximum amount of effort you can possibly do and reaching the end as quickly and skillfully as possible. To me, Hardcore would be getting your character maxed out both in experience and gear as quick as possible and keeping yourself ahead of the "casuals" lol.

    What they are calling "casual" is people who can't spend more than a few hours online a day/week but still want to see the end-game content. But, there were always hardcore people that also could only spend a few hours a day/week online in the old days, too. They just used their time wisely. And there will be "hardcore" people now that have a life, a job, and will use their time wisely.

    To me, casual means slack/relaxed. Hardcore means, Let's get this done, now!

    Yes, hardcore people can often spend a lot more time in a game (they sacrifice sleep if they need to), but they don't do it to endlessly grind, they do it to get done.

    Selo is, for many hardcore players, more appealing. DBG's biggest mistake was giving the labels of "Hardcore" and "Casual" to either server.
    Bobbybick likes this.
  10. Rolento Augur

    I agree with just about everything you have said, especially the part about labeling the servers Hardcore and Casual. What people consider Hardcore vs Casual can be so many different things. Obviously DB thought it meant grinding out levels with punishing death penalties.

    I really hope they take the feedback of the people on the forums and tweak Mangler to make it more appealing. Aside from boosting exp rates that is, which is a must for this server to even survive.
  11. Elyani Augur

    I find it most funny that I think 15-16 years ago, Mangler would have more appealing to the actual casuals. I had friends that I started EQ with back in 2001. These same friends, by the time I was raiding in PoTime, they were hitting level 56. By the time I started leading open raids in PoP (to selfishly flag my new alt), they were finally hitting 60-65 and were invited to join my raids for the flags so they could get into Elemental zones, too.

    The casuals enjoyed a more relaxed atmosphere. They enjoyed more socialization (ring a bell here, anti-boxers?) and less stress that came with high-end raiding. They'd group in zones for days just because it meant slower/easier pulls and more chit-chat. When LDoN hit, they were raiding Luclin.

    I think those same "casuals" are now the ones that want to experience end-game content but without the same effort that was required in the old days of EQ. Which is totally understandable and fine.
  12. code-zero Augur

    I see it differently. Hardcore is willing to accept a challenge and overcome that challenge. If I called myself hardcore I'd be insulted that someone would think I'd be attracted to a loot piñata like Selo and I certainly wouldn't be complaining that "Mangler is too hard!"
  13. RandomStrategy Augur

    Are you kidding? Selo's is going to be the biggest challenge ever.

    You ever think that going into VT with Banded mail isn't going to be hard?
  14. Ceffener Augur

    Back then the internet was new (to many) and EQ was a giant chat room with some orcs you killed once every 20 minutes between waiting for mana. But the world has changed a lot. Realistically I think the people that would be happy just chatting with strangers 24/7 while occasionally actually playing their characters have mostly left the game a long time ago.

    There may be people who are more casual or hardcore, but for the most part everyone would identify as a gamer. They have goals and things they want to accomplish. I play casually, but I see nothing fun about killing 3 mobs every 30 minutes while people watch Netflix on their other screen (happens way more than people chatting) or hearing about their political/whatever troll thing people want to debate that day. And if I’m only grouping with people I know already, why do I want so much downtime as opposed to playing together?
    code-zero likes this.
  15. Sethiroth Augur

    “Hardcore” players, who “spend thier time wisely” because they have jobs and can’t play as much are known as “casuals”
    This is literally at the heart of nearly every thread since daybreak announced the new servers.

    PS get off your high horse, we all pay the same subs.
    code-zero likes this.
  16. Elyani Augur

    You'd think so!! But, you'd be surprised. I was surprised to meet quite a few people on the last TLP I played that I knew from my home server. These people were some of those casuals I was talking about.

    When 51/50 came out, some of my "casual" friends showed up to play there and finally experience raiding. To which, you bet I got them into my guild!

    These servers bring back people who have left the game a long time ago. Heck, they bring me back. I originally left the game back right before The Buried Sea launched and came back for Mayong. When Mayong merged with live servers I came back again for Lockjaw/Ragefire. Also, Phinny, and most recently, Agnarr. I skipped Coirnav because I got burned out on Agnarr.
  17. Ceffener Augur

    And where did they go one month after ragefire launched?

    Number of people it shifts around from other servers is much higher than any it brings back. Overall sub count is still going down.
  18. Elyani Augur

    LOL! Exactly, we all pay the same subs, so I can throw out my opinions, too. Wah, sorry does that offend you?
  19. Evade2019 Lorekeeper

    Obviously there is no set definition for what it means to be hardcore or casual but generally it’s time available. I have a let’s get this **** some now mentality but I only got 1 or 2 hours to make meaningful progression before I have to shut her down. I like challenge and I like to see all content.but I would consider myself a casual player due to only having a couple hours a night of playtime

    I think what you are referring to are carebear type players. Their playtime can range from casual to hardcore but their play style is very laid back and chill. They don’t mind skipping content, they don’t mind getting free loots
  20. Elyani Augur

    You're right. The number of people subbing to each new server release is going down. Which is why they need to desperately do something new. A great example of it is, like myself, they release Coirnav and they lost more subs than they gained. They did not make Agnarr appealing enough to keep enough people around. Then they release a new server with the (almost) same stupid rules as the one that is now dying. Except we can go further in it, but we're all still starting back at square one.

    To be fair, it's not exactly like I can think of some way to really make a magically good server release. I think FV (hate it or love it) is probably, realistically, the only new thing they have to offer outside of removing true box, possibly, and tweaking release rate/experience rates.

    They should bring back Guild Warring (Guild PVP!). I think that'd be hilarious with open world races haha.

    They should also bring back GMs that are involved in the servers, GM events, while nothing super special, where fun.

    I get that and understand what you're saying. But I still don't believe the idea of "hardcore" is grinding endlessly for experience. Even when the hardcore players would grind for 10 hours straight to get the AA exp, don't think any of us ever said or thought, "Hell yah! LET'S Spend 10 hours getting AA's before next raid, this is the best!" We just did it because we had to. Not because we wanted to and thought that was fun. Lol.

    Edit: Also, maybe it should have been called "The server for people with a little time" and "The server for people with more time". Because the definition of Casual and Hardcore are subjective.