It can be when a mob with conal AE's turns away from tank because said alliance caster's aren't being careful and it AE's the raid. No matter how fast you think you are, a split second can make for a bad time. It is getting fixed, so it will be better, but its not without it's aggravation. But even more food for thought: is agro where it should be? Prior to this expansion, some well played classes would provide a challenge. The DoT changes have made it slightly harder to keep ahead of some hybrids and monks always seem to start off high out of the gate, but slump off. Usually not a problem so long as you stay active. Move to now, and its horrible. Alliances are getting fixed, sure, but they still intend some of that hatred to be generated. Even if they chose 35% Dzarn stated it will be 7.5% of the full damage, that's around 700k 150k hate from someone every 18 seconds (1 minute from the same person due to cooldown). SK's generate huge amounts of agro now with HT, but throw in their alliance and its basically gone from you. I have tools at my disposal to keep ahead of the flow, but look over these numbers (from a Warrior's toolkit): Code: Single Target Krondal's Roar: Increase Hate by 3359 per tick for 5 ticks. Ridicule: Increase hate by 9655 and adds a defensive proc. Harassing Shout: Increase hate by 10331 and decreases mobs chance to dodge by 27%, while adding 1423 more hate. Blast of Anger: Increase hate by 36,000. Phantom Aggressor: Generates 8378 hate inittially, then continually feeds you at least 13350 hate per tick. Ageless Enmity: Successfully taunts the mob and adds an additional 12,000 hate. Determined Reprisal: 6891 hate per proc. Gut Punch: 4000 dmg Knee Strike: Kick Attack for 325 Shield Break: 2H Slashing Attack for 757 Area Effect Enhanced AE Taunt: Taunts all mobs around you and adds 12000 hate. Stormwheel Blades: Generates 10490 hate on all mobs around you while slashing them. Roar of Challenge: Generates 2145 hate on 4 mobs around you and decreases their accuracy by 431%. Given a 30 second timeline, if I went ahead and blew all these things and let them "fulminate" (assuming 1 proc per tick from some of those), you're looking at around 225504 base hate. You can add in rune procs and damage modifiers, plus attack dmg+agro, but in 30 seconds, blowing my load, 225504 is my "activated" agro base, and most of those abilities don't refresh faster than 30 seconds. Not trying to justify Harmonious. Just saying these things need some updating. The stagnation over 3 expansions is what causes harmonious/wade to be useful and relied upon. We should never be stuck with "taunt tanking" or easy button mode.
No clue why your not adding any aggro mods to that list, Do you really tank with out any aggro mods cycled threw individually ? Also on top of the fact you are missing out on multiple other aggro abilities.. 225,504 hate baseline, but before you do a single aggro ability hitting your rage of the forsaken (+80% aggro mod) ( Rage of the forsaken, something you failed to even bring up in your write up) that 225,504 hate .. now becomes well over 400k hate. oh some one's alliance hits after you landed all that hate , Good. Warlords Grasp (something you failed ro even mention in your aggro write up) ( which lowers others aggro by up to 65% as well works on alliances as well) that mob back, hit a successful taunt and BUILD your aggro off that alliance that just hit. (grasps refresh is 45 seconds) so its almost perfectly timed for most instances some one pops off an alliance. (This is where in my other thread I said yes, spikes happen. an yes we deal with them as they come) now by the time all of this goes down, at LEAST a minute has gone threw and most of your abilities are back up, thus cycle / rince / repeat .. as needed. This btw .. is with out Harmonious or Wade into battle.. cycling..
Because variables. They aren't activated agro. What I listed are the bread and butter. If you want to go through nit picking, then you can put in all the abilities the other classes have that modify their stuff too. Basically it's a lot of math, and I am not inclined to go through it all. I posed the question, is our activated agro where it should be. And if i popped off everything from the start over 30 seconds (estimated mind you) I'd do 225,504 base hate to their 150k base hate in 20 seconds. Now throw in your variables. I'd bet they aren't just cycling alliance, just as I wouldn't miss out on my modifiers, etc. Warlord's Grasp is a useful tool. But it doesn't generate agro. Honestly, if you are using this, you are probably taunting your off. And when taunt fails, and all your discs are down and grasp wears off, have fun chasing the mob around. Also: Taunt up to Level 110 and Reduce Ally Hatred Generation by 35%. Not 65%. Again, we should not be "taunt tanking" or easy button mode. Can't use Wade since it shares a timer with Determined Reprisal, but I'm sure you already knew that. Harmonious is the reason we don't have it as rough, which is a bad thing. As most people have said, Harmonious is not healthy for the game.
A second character getting 150k agro does not add in any way to the first one. If you have 200k agro, you will tank over 474736352 other raiders with 150k each.
But the problem is that Maedhros made a comment in another thread about stances and tank dps and then a just a few weeks afterwards we saw stances altered. Just coincidence? Maybe. But now he still wants to say he's for balancing through bringing the classes who are needing help up versus nerfing a "target list" of class on another "target list" of abilities. It is two different messages that I sense he wants to believe can co-exist. They can't. One will harm the game and continue a string of "misfires" through nerfs(that follow a curious and unproductive circular pattern) and the other will not do anything because apparently the current devs don't seem able to give that approach a shot. So while I was "thinking" of him when I made my comment, he isn't exclusive in his philosophy or impact on balancing(YES he has an impact) regarding posts here in this forum. The only thing really strange about his "response" post was the FV hate. Really? All bent out of shape because someone who doesn't play anymore(or live I guess) somehow got ensnared in a web of villainy and RMT. Condemn a whole server community for something like that? Makes no sense. FV is just a different twist on EQ that trades one time sink for another. Players there still need to know how to play the game at whatever level they choose to play.
Exactly. But what may happen with the current nerf mindset is that they will lobotomize harmonious and do nothing else.
Here's some math assuming you spam everything off cooldown. There are even more variables than this (like runes, procs, and autoattack), but if a person does 1 alliance doom per minute as is the norm, this is what I estimated. As far as liking alliances, not really.
I can only speak of 105 full groupable gear endgame for Paladins and SK's. A paladin is utilility only class or group of few. There not even in same league as a Shadowknight. You're question is broad and you are gonna get all kinds of response, but unless you are a raid person, the lack of anyone wanting to group on EQ theses days and unless you want to box full groups...Paladins diffently suck forsomeone that wants to play game and enjoy content of most all joins. 1 Key factor, Paladins need there hands held. Shadow knights do not. Anyone wanting argue that, welcome log on with there paladin on Xegony and we go to few groupable places solo and see how it goes for your solo paladin vs SK. SK design do all content. Paladins are not.
I don't want to sound rude, but If you are unable to solo or doing group content with your paladin because you need your hands held to be able to do it, I would suggest you review how you play one.
Paladins are difficult class, most prefer SK in general.. Usually Paladin mains dont play other classes and are dedicated players. Mastering a Paladin can take more effort than knowing a bard these days, but once your good at it and practiced.. there is nothing like a Paladin in group / raid really.. My toon: https://eq.magelo.com/profile/3576591
Paladins can do awesome stuff - although I question how much solo matters. In groups, SKs will out perform. They have 2x the damage bonus of paladins (120% vs 60%), have amazing AE agro, and superior single target agro. Paladins have a raid only heal/cure spell... Paladins function fine, but if you are comparing, its obvious which class the devs favor
Correct me if I'm wrong but fairly certain max Innate Holyblade is 66%(not a very holy number......) and Darkblade is 100% after nerf. Not that it matters much, but claiming double bonus on those numbers is a bit of an exaggeration. Shadowknights should excel in that realm regardless. Also, Sigra, who is your SK on Xegony that you're saying will hand hold or school any Paladin solo?
I just used the numbers on raidloot.com which list innate darkblade as 120%. I did mistype and say holybalde was 60% instead of 66%. But the point is still valid. SKs have vastly better damage and agro. All around they are superior group tanks. If they do more damage, paladins should have equally increased survivability. And both tanks should have equal agro.
im still trying to figure out why people are so worried about the ae agro .. if DPS is doing their job and assisting the tank on the mob he is focusing on then there should be no prob other than healer agro from healing but hitting you ae taunt aa or wwblade should grab that back .. also DPS most classes if im right have the ability to drop most of there agro and control how much they keep on the mob to a point .. so if all doing their jobs right then you dont have a prob .. also worrying about tank DPS is just funny to me .. we are not DPS and were never supposed to be .. we are there to take dmg and keep agro .. you want DPS ?.. then play a DPS class
The problem really is passive aggro generated by the Dishamornious buff, and the crippled single target aggro from the paladins compared to the other classes. If your definition of "doing their job" for the dps classes is to cripple their dps, it's not a viable solution as it will then be more profitable to use the other 2 classes as tanks then to use the dps abilities to their full extent.
So you wouldn't have a problem if you lost about 40% of your agro and had your dps cut in half? If warriors only had 2 weak ae agro abilities that do not stack (if someone attacks the mob, its not strong enough to hold it). That is where paladins are at.
