Devs please save the zerker class.

All this talk about more burst/sustained is only part of the problem though. Without doing something about the insane wild ramp it all won't matter anyway... They could double weapon dmg, double timers on discs, double time on shm epic, (or everything combined) but if you can't stand in range of the mob for more then 10s at a time w/out backing out hoping for a heal it's all pretty meaningless.

Finding a way to make an event difficult without making wild ramp do 150k is what this dev team needs to come up with.

everyone is talking about raiding, how do you propose to fix the disparity in the group game? take a group geared pure caster and group geared pure melee and compare those. My guess is noone fighting against the melee classes on here wants to talk about that.

Compare the group melee to the caster merc.

Group Wizard 30k with bard, Group zerker 13k with bard wizard merc 25k Priceless lol.

The only way to fix a group zerker without bumping raid zerkers is a ber only group weapon that is on a separate ratio table.

Or fix the wizard merc's dps so that its not doing raiding casters dps levels, rather than drastically changing everyone elses sustained to 30K autoattack.

nm

see that duck dodge and deflect.. not happy mercs are doing raid type dps but perfectly ok for group geared to be doing even more than mercs. Agenda seen no need to read any further comments from this one.

Your guys logic is so amazing. A wizard merc is broken, using spells it shouldn't be to do dps at the levels of a end game raiding caster. My solution once again is to bring that back into balance so a merc is doing group level dps or at least a semi raid geared dps. Once again your guys solution is just to have more dps plopped into your lap.

Raiding zerkers should be roughly equal to raiding wizards and rogues in burst. You balance around that fact. None of them should sustained very well fixes should address any that do like they have done for the past 14 years. Support, skill, knowledge play a big part in this and can't just be ignored.

Grouping zerkers should be roughly equal to grouping wizards and rogues in burst, don't forget about support here even though its often the case people ignore. You balance around this fact. Again none of those 3 should be out parsing monks, necros or mages in the group game in sustained. Support, skill, knowledge play a big part in this and can't just be ignored.

Or we can ignore everything the game has done for 14 years and just make all dps the same. Pick the one you like but you have no niche or specialty your burst dps and sustained dps will be roughly the same if you are a monk, rogue, zerker, wizard, mage, necro, ranger, beastlord. No more burst classes stay in their arena and no more sustained classes staying in theirs everyone gets to do everything. Something tells me we then will actually see a mass exodus.

No one is saying they want to be on par with the sustained damage of necro, mage, monk besides maybe one or two people. We just don't want to be 30k dps behind.

You're constantly arguing that we shouldn't be in the same ballpark on sustained, but fail to acknowledge/admit that those same classes are in the same ballpark as us, only 30k or so behind on burst with the same support.

There's a huge difference between us bursting for 200k vs 150k (insert sustained class) over 1 minute and us sustaining 40k vs. 70k (insert sustained class) over the next 6 minutes, when damage is all our class is there to do.

We're just trying to get a more gradual fall off rather than an anvil attached to our feet after the burn phase ends.

Explain the point to playing a mage, necro, ranger or beastlord if you are 50-100K behind in burst and then changes are made so that you are only 10-15K ahead in sustained?

Zerkers and wizards can do 200-250K don't think rogues can right now without the fixes coming, this is from well played-supported-geared ones. Mages can hit 150K with no penality to their sustained not top burst but not awful. Beastlords are more around 100-120K from what I have seen, again even if its 150K its still 50-100K behind. Both of these are from exceptional mages and beasts not common. I don't think necros can do above 120K on a 60 second fight or shorter and that's at the price of burning all their sustained stuff wastefully cutting their sustained drastically. At 2 minutes or more that changes and they can spike that high but that's not burst 120 seconds into a single mob.

You chose to play a burst class. That anvil as you call it has always been there and ties to the nature of a burst class. You have the ability to on demand go from zero to massive amounts of damage with the downside of dropping off drastically to low sustained when the "burst" is over. When the majority of raids were burst you didn't care that you won or parsed well on just about every event and the sustained classes had anvils tied to their feet for all those events. This was the way of the game for 11+ expansions. There was no grant those sustained classes burst dps to the point that they were less than 50% behind. So why are burst classes so special that now that their burst doesn't win every event for a few months of a single expansion should they be granted a pass and get great sustained boosts? When the same people lobbying for it now went out of their way to make sure necros, mages, beastlords and rangers were kept in check in burst because they "had to much sustained" or "to much utility" when sustained had little value that they couldn't even be in the realm of what burst classes could do. Its hypocritical.

I didn't choose to play a burst class. I chose to play a class that is all offense 100% of the time except the 9 seconds if riposte glory.

Some real quick rough math....lets say the fight is 7 minutes.

Over one minute the berserker goes for 200k dps so 12 million damage.

The sustained class goes for 150k dps so 9 million damage.

Over the next 6 minutes the berserker sustains 40k for 14.4 million damage.

The sustained class sustains 70k over those same 6 minutes for 25.2 million damage.

So the berserker dumps in 26.4 million damage while the sustained class dumps in 34.2 million for a difference of roughly 25% over 7 minutes.

If you're arguing that those numbers should be correct and that is what a berserker, who's only objective is EQ is to do damage, should be at over that time frame, then there's no point in arguing further as we just don't see the classes eye to eye on what the lore for the class is.

Obviously the numbers are super rough but fairly accurate for what I've seen on parses.

If you win the powerball and the jackpot is 590 million. Why if you take lump sum (burst) do you only get 370 million? Time value of money is the same as time value of damage. On demand at will burst dps comes at the cost of losing out in total damage that takes time to develop (sustained) because it has great value. Who would ever not chose lump sum if the pot was 590 million and if you took lump sum and got 560 million (damage all up front) at will instead of waiting a ton of time for little to no benefit because burst suddenly kept pace with sustained.

Or when burst ruled the world and melee and occasionally wizards put up X dps why did various people in this thread lobby against various sustained classes when they did more than (X * .5) burst dps? So again if it was so game breaking and unbalancing for sustained classes to need to be nerfed or changed when the few times various things allowed them to do more than 50% of what burst classes could do in burst fights. When the majority of raid events were burst. The same logic should apply now when nothing has changed as far as dps burst vs sustained outside of wizards doing something they never could before and the fact that raids now lean heavily to sustained instead of burst. The same balance applies. Unless as I said you are hypocritical and its not ok for sustained to want burst but its ok for burst to get sustained in the name of mythical all I do is dps and should always be in the hunt belief.

Only a necro can possibly ask to be ahead on sustained compared to berserkers because their burst is somewhat worse now and because its their lore.

Rest should be behind.. yes behind.. why? a little thing called utility my friend..

I think the problem is really the fact that you guys (melee) require so many classes to reach peak performance. In most groups you aren't going to have chanter buffs + bard + beastlord + beserker etc. So they balance you around optimum raid conditions, instead of making those buffs not stack/and have you get peak performance from having not + but (or)| So that a beserker performs at the right dps level with bard or beastlord or chanter buffs... and then can reach 70% of that or something with only them and a haste potion.

40%

Lol yes doing X damage at will in a short period is not valuable at all compared to doing X damage over a very long period.

How many events can be trivialized by stacking more and more sustained classes? How many events are trivialized by more and more burst? Group mobs? Stages, phases, trash? Was it sustained being so valuable that it forced to devs to reconsider how they design events because it got so powerful when stacked they couldn't stop its value? Is it harder to stay alive for 30-60 seconds or 300+ seconds on the same events? How much content is 300+ seconds without phases, scripts, locked hps, mini's, adds? Yeah its very valuable to be able to dump your dps at will in short periods.

In the past yes zerkers have but I really don't see anyone pooping on this thread. Asking for sustained greater than everyone but maybe one class now that sustained is showing up in raids as a premier burst class isn't balanced.

Fixing root, blind and whatever else stuff you guys want if it offers no premium anymore is valid and I haven't seen anyone against that stuff.

Of course burst is valuable, but the burst classes should only really be behind other pure DPS classes that are sustained oriented = necro. monk.

Then you substract utility and take into consideration how good the burn is and you come up with the only candidate for sustained outparsing = necro.

/the end

So we agree on the time value of burst even though before you lol'd. Its just back to your hang ups on other classes having stuff you don't have. There are no pure anything classes anymore. Hybrids don't have parent classes anymore and don't follow parent classes to a lessor degree. Everyone is essentially a pure class at whatever their major role is. Just as clerics aren't the end all be all of healing as warriors are not the end all be all in tanking. They do some things better than other classes in that role but no longer do everything better. You don't get to do dps better in every situation then every other dps class but one because you say so or made it up in your mind that that was the classes nature.