Devs: Please Enable "Relaxed True Box" on All TLPs in Omens+ Content

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Protocol, Apr 8, 2022.

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  1. Phati Elder

    In one corner, we have a person pulling real numbers from a thread. In the other corner, someone pulling numbers from their backside and pretending they're real.
    Gormgeous likes this.
  2. Gormgeous Elder

    My favorite part is that I know who you are replying too even if I can't see their content! It's great.

    So far only response we've got is Accendo saying "update coming soon" in the Aradune discord. Hopefully we'll hear something soon regarding relaxed boxing elsewhere.
  3. Gormgeous Elder

    EDIT: Double post. Server timed out on first one and apparently saved it but didn't tell me. /shakesfist
  4. sieger Augur

    At the end of the day every TLP eventually loses its Truebox status, the question is when, not if--because at the end of a TLP's lifespan they are typically merged with a live server and there is no such thing as Truebox Live. This raises a core point--the game was not designed, nor is it currently intended, to be played in Truebox mode.

    Instead, Truebox mode was created without a lot of community input in the run-up to Phinigel server being created to address problems on LJ/RF. Most people playing back then knew that even at the moment it was introduced it wasn't really a perfect solution, but it did probably do more good than harm, and paired with the release of Agents of Change it made Phinigel a massive success. Since that time every single Truebox TLP that has gotten in to the later eras (typically the 70s and beyond) has lobbied repeatedly to have Truebox dropped. Many of these efforts have not attracted the anti-box troll that this thread did, but all were unsuccessful.

    The reality is DPG has "changed the rules" of every TLP to some degree as the TLP is in progress, with tweaks here and there. It is false to act like these rules are treated as being set in stone, as far as I can tell the only reason Truebox has been treated that way is because of anti-box forum posters, who muddy the waters by creating drama about late-TLP era truebox--an era the vast majority of them will never experience and have never experienced.

    Look at all the tweaks the Mischief/Thornblade servers got, sometimes with far less community outreach than we already see from TLPers asking for the Yelinak/Vaniki transition to Relaxed Truebox in later eras to be made a standard. It is time to actually listen to the players involved in these later era TLPs who just want to continue playing EQ in the later eras when boxing was a universal norm in actual EQ.

    EQ had all kinds of things it could have done 10, 15 or even more years ago to make boxing not so important to the game. For one, they could have, following the example of virtually every other major MMO, changed the leveling and non-raid progression game to one where you can primarily complete it with one single character. Expansion after expansion is released every year, and that change has never been made. They have "doubled down" on the game having a limited to non-existent solo game for 23 years. The choice has been made that you need multiple characters to accomplish anything of note, and that is a choice that predictably creates boxing because not everyone will be able to group all the time, especially in a game where after a certain point most grouping occurs between pre-established groups of friends inside of guilds, and there is no quick group matchmaking service like there is in almost every other MMO.

    If you have a moral issue with boxing create a thread asking them to make soloing viable for non-raid content, because that is the core issue.
    Phati, Selia, Velisaris_MS and 3 others like this.
  5. HowDidIEndUpBackHere Elder

    My day has started off with some good news. Then again that update could be a month...
  6. Machen New Member

    Regardless of how many players were still playing on Vulak, Vulak WAS a TLP and DID have Krono for the majority of its existence. And Fippy was still very much alive during Omens of War when Krono were introduced with 10+ guilds still doing content. And your argument was that NO tlp had krono. It just isn't true.
  7. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Very well said!
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Protocol Dragon Defender

    This perfectly encapsulates the problem and the solutions.
    Skuz and Tweakfour17 like this.
  9. Lloyd New Member

    Agree with this 100%
    Skuz likes this.
  10. Magician9001 Augur

    The core issues with boxing rules are
    1) The botting that inevitably follows.
    2) Contested camps/raid spawn.
    3) It circumvents one of the fundamental EQ gameplay loops of working with others to achieve a common goal.

    Both of these negatively impact players who choose not to box/bot and ultimately creates a if you can't beat them join them or quit scenario. Most people choose the later.

    It has nothing to with "not being able to solo" and everything to do with the 3rd reason. Boxing is only a thing because people choose the easy route instead of doing number 3. Once enough people start doing 3 the server dies. Which is what actually happens on most TLPs post PoP. People start doing selfish with their boxes instead of grouping with other players.

    OoW, DoDh and TSS are 3 of EQs best expansions. Please don't ruin them for people that don't wanna box with this concept of "relax truebox"

    We don't wanna do our 2.0s with a bunch of boxes i wanna work with a bunch of different players.
  11. Ecko Elder

    So I can count on you to spend the days/weeks i'd need to spend camping AC augs for my tank? Can all tanks on the server count on you for that? That's why I started boxing when OoW+ was live, because trying to drag guildies to dreadspire for the 9th consecutive day to not see Alex Hutchinson spawn was an effort in futility. And fair play to them, they had stuff they wanted to achieve.
    Tweakfour17 and Skuz like this.
  12. Ariana Augur

    One of the most frustrating thing about playing a non-tank character is when all of your guilds tanks decide to box and just do their own thing. You spend your time gearing them up at raids, and when it comes time to achieve those other things they are hunkered down with their crews box crews farming their AC augs or whatever. I would absolutely go along for the AC aug hunt if it meant reciprocity down the line. Instead, the sentiment is often I don't need that, or I could box that.

    Having also played a tank in the era of AC augs, I can also say, with certainty, that you don't in any way need the 20 AC and 150HP upgrade from moving from RSS augs to Alex Hutchison augs. It is purely a min/max thing and doesn't in any way affect your ability to tank.
    Magician9001, Tweakfour17 and Skuz like this.
  13. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Truebox doesn't fix people not wanting to help unfortunately.
    Ariana likes this.
  14. Ariana Augur

    Totally agree. And I'm all for relaxing truebox. If I'm going to be forced to box to achieve my goals, I'd like to be able to do it more efficiently on 1 or 2 PC's instead of 3-6. Just felt it was worth calling out that it feels like boxing at all feels like a foregone conclusion to a lot of people.

    I'd honestly like it if nobody boxed, like at all, truebox or no, but clearly that's not realistic.
    Hirbow likes this.
  15. Ecko Elder

    I can appreciate that point of view. I was one of the few people that did box in my guild at the time, at least one of the only ones boxing 5. I like to believe I helped out as much as possible, for example I think i ran most of my guild through tipt trials etc. And sometimes people wanted to come along, other times they didn't, but I still needed them to be an effective tank as possible on raids, so was lose lose really.

    If you have an awesome group of people that always want to play and you can agree on doing things for everyone fairly, that is absolutely the best way to play this game. More often than not, especially these days, it rarely happens (at least in my experience (and I could be a knob, who knows?!))
    Ariana likes this.
  16. Magician9001 Augur

    On past TLPs we just made static groups with friends for things like BiC, AC augs, epics and we would take turns helping each other out. This still happens in early era TLPs but people just get bored in Luclin-PoP and AE PL becomes really OP then people start leveling a bunch of boxes. Then when PoP/Gates/OoW people choose doing stuff for themselves with a bunch of boxes instead of doing with friends. The game becomes more about the destination then the journey and most of the player base quits because of it.

    It's boxing that kills the game.
    Exactly what kills the servers in the 65s and 70s.

    In Classic/Kunark people don't have their boxes leveled. So they help each other out. By the time PoP ends those many of those who didn't box or have 2 toons now have 6 and say other people.
  17. Magician9001 Augur

    Removing boxing does though. It forces them to work with others or not get their precious loot. Truebox isn't perfect, but it should be strengthened not relaxed.
  18. Tweakfour17 Augur

    You can strengthen it all you want, if people don't like you enough to group with you over their boxes they still won't group with you. And thats not meant as a troll or a dig, you can't force people to want to play with someone, they will just group with someone else or not do the thing.
  19. Magician9001 Augur

    It's has nothing to do with people not liking other people. It's all about people wanting to spend less time working towards their goals, so they box and play alone rather then other players. That then destroys the community aspect of game and once the community aspect of the server dies that server is doomed. Boxing sets off a chain reaction that destroys server population, then after it destroys the server population you guys come to the forums and ask for a more "relaxed" ruleset on the next TLP that ultimately will lead to it dying faster and faster.
  20. Tweakfour17 Augur

    This thread is asking for a more relaxed truebox on old servers. If you want to preserve the new ones maybe start a new thread about it before they launch Yelinak/Vaniki.
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