Devs have literally destroyed paladins and no one is saying a word

All of my undead parses are with a 2 her

Targeting myself,

[Mon Dec 23 22:27:40 2019] You slash a mournful specter for 407729 points of damage. (Riposte Slay Undead)

So slays can happen from you primary hand against untargeted attackers. They also happen with a bash riposte.

[Mon Dec 23 22:34:28 2019] You bash a wandering soul for 54150 points of damage. (Riposte Slay Undead)

Note for those who don't realize: Knights cannot bash riposte if they wield a no-damage primary weapon with /autoattack off. Knight's Return Strike AA requires a riposted attack, a swing or "riposte of riposte", in order to fire. So you can safely wield your shield in such off-tanking situations.

If there's a problem with Slay rate, it's not due to a lack of swarm ripostes.

ps: /autoskill bash requires a valid target in melee range to fire too.

pps: Gina search text for "Slay for {N} damage"

Code:

^You (?:[\w ]+) {N} (?:[\w ]+)\. \((?:[\w ]*)Slay Undead.+$

I'm not sure if I should cry or laugh when I read the comments of a few saying paladins are an awful tank, that they are replaced by SK / War in group content...
I'm going to say it in a kind way, learn how to play your class before coming posting non sense like this.
To the OP, if your only complaint is Slay undead reduction, you should have named your thread accordingly like "Big reduction on Slay undead" and not "Paladin class has been destroyed", maybe we would not have seen the few non sense posts we have seen lol.

The amount of undead in this expansion as I am sure you are aware of makes this a fantastic pally expansion experience.

I stumbled across this thread so I thought I would parse some myself to see what would happen. I would love to see if people get similar outcome as I am not an experienced parser.

For science, all parses use:
Combat Dummy Azia has the bodytype of an undead creature. Combat Dummy Azia is currently level 115 and has 668 AC.
HDEX: +1991
2hander
No buffs (unless specified)
~60s parse time
Slay Undead Rank 14/16

I started off just simply auto attacking the dummy and came up with:

No disc used:
Combat Dummy Azia in 61s, 6.63M Damage @108.65K
6 slay undead, 115 hits ~ 5.2PCT

Talk about hitting it dead on the nose, I felt for an honest parse I would run it again to see if it stacked up:

No disc used:
Combat Dummy Azia in 61s, 6.77M Damage @110.94K
6 slay undead, 95 hits ~ 6.3PCT

Lo and behold I went above the 5.2% expect, l33t. I then wanted to see what my discs would cause me to do:

Using Holyforge Discipline:
Combat Dummy Azia in 61s, 3.77M Damage @61.78K
3 slay undead, 106 hits ~ 2.8%

Did not expect to see a sub 5.2%, so again I ran it a second time:

Using Holyforge Discipline:
Combat Dummy Azia in 67s, 6.89M Damage @102.81K
6 slay undead, 123 hits ~ 4.9%

This is actually the closest that Holyforge ever got. I ran it a few more times for science and it was consistently in the 2.0 - 2.5% range.

While it was on cooldown I decided to try Pureforge as well:

Using Pureforge Discipline:
Combat Dummy Azia in 63s, 7.35M Damage @116.73K
2 slay undead, 106 hits ~ 1.8%

It ended up even worse so I ran it a second time:

Using Pureforge Discipline:
Combat Dummy Azia in 61s, 4.38M Damage @71.88K
1 slay undead, 98 hits ~ 1.0%

This was pretty consistent, Pureforge was hitting 1.0 - 2.0% each time I ran it.

Is it possible that Slay Undead itself works but the discs are somehow borking it up? I didn't try any tank discs as I dont understand how that would change anything for Slay Undead.

This has me wondering as I used discs as well as had a bard casting epic - fierce - QuickTime every time they were up. I’m wondering if crit mods reduce your capacity to slay. This hasn’t always been the case and the hhe on quick and vr always increased slay rate during x time frame by increasing the max number of swings overall

Players that are operating their paladins as “just a tank” are indeed runts. Paladins that are played to their full potential can fill the role of both tank and healer in many groups. It’s rare to find a player like that, but they are out there and very fun to play with.

Someone with older logs needs to confirm if they changed the hit mod check order for slay undead. I am missing all my old log files, computer issue, and I haven't parsed a lot in the last couple years, so I can't confirm myself.

But I have some suspicions after checking some parsing out this morning. Running a valorous one right now.

Pureforge:

Pureforge Discipline Rk. III


Paladin (90)

Slot 1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 340%
Slot 2: Increase Chance to Crippling Blow by 40%
Slot 3: Increase Chance to Triple Attack by 50%

Holyforge:

Holyforge Discipline


Paladin (55)

Slot 1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 200%
Slot 2: Increase Chance to Crippling Blow by 20%
Slot 3: Increase Chance to Slay Undead by 1.4% with 1700% Base Damage


But for reference, back in 2007, with vanquish undead ranks, which are, what

% OF SLAYS % OF SLAYS W/ HOLYFORGE
with VU1 3.10 3.22
with VU2 3.20 3.96
with VU3 3.31 4.08

VU3 is what is now slay 6. We also know that slay undead was definitely nerfed %wise as Dzarn admitted in beta (which I presume is why we received 2 new ranks of it with relatively hefty % increases).

But I reference that old (bad) date for specific reasons:

1) we always calculated slay chance by slay/hit, as the check for slay happened BEFORE critical hit chance
2) hitting our discs always increased slay rate

The only time those discs didn't increase slay rate was when Holyforge was bugged, when they accidentally nerfed it after adding the slot 3 slay undead mod. For awhile, hitting holyforge reduced out chance to slay. We had to parse it for like 7 months before the devs admitted it and fixed it.

So, for some CURRENT data, slay undead 15/16 (should be 5.5% chance)

Slay undead (no pureforge or valorous):


Duration - 40:43
%
slash 4101 all slash 4101
slash/slay 239 all bash 501
bash 501 total 4602
bash/slay 15
slash/crit 1637
bash/crit 213 slay% 5.52%
slash/crip 0 crit% 40.20%
bash/crip 0 crip% 0.00%

Slay undead (pureforge YES, no valorous):


Duration - 43:08
%
slash 4540 all slash 4540
slash/slay 231 all bash 534
bash 534 total 5074
bash/slay 30
slash/crit 1708
bash/crit 223 slay% 5.14%
slash/crip 1138 crit% 38.06%
bash/crip 123 crip% 24.85%

Checked some other samples and I'm not seeing a reduction in slays. Remember, pureforge doesn't have a slay mod, so it should be the same. Bigger concern would be the drop in crits, but that drop is just because crippling blows checks before criticals, so less criticals are expected.

Things of note to dispel some suggestions or things that could cause slay % drops:

1) already shown you can riposte slay
2) already shown you can riposte slay a mob you are not targeting
3) in my parses, I saw multiple slay rounds in flurries, and double slays (triple slays were always super rarer), so still can slay on additional swings on the same round

Things to still check:

1) hundred hands effects (valorous - I'm running a parse now)
2) holyforge (I may do that next, but I did want to actually play eq today, so....)

The other question I have for those posting parses that don't match what the rest of us are seeing...what are you using to parse? AFAIK no parser is currently set up to accurately do slay lines and such.

I did mine the old fashion way, in excel, paste entire log file in then things like:

=COUNTIF($A$1:$A$8000,"*you slash combat*")
=COUNTIF($A$1:$A$8000,"*you slash combat**slay undead*")

If you're relying on a parser, it may not be giving you correct returns. I have an excel file set up where I can just paste in logs, if someone wants to send me a PM with a log file to check if they are coming up with crazy things like 2%.

Our aggro is awful. But that only matters with hardcore dps aggro (Shennron made me want to shoot myself last night!). But for 99% of players you group with, even our aggro isn't bad. Paladins are in a good place atm. Against undead, competitive 1-2 minute parses for burns, especially if tanking (with 2her). Not going to beat the best dps, but will easily beat bad dps and will be right there with a good SK.

Long term, sustained, we are probably not any worse than any but the best dps, especially if tanking with 2her.

Against live mobs on 1-2 minute burns, we're awful still. Against live mobs, sustained, we're pretty far behind.

But that combination sounds like where most of us always expected to be.

I see no affect from valorous (hundred hands effect) being added. Right within the margin of parsing error for that number of hits.

Valorous:

Duration - 42:42
%
slash 4825 all slash 4825
slash/slay 260 all bash 465
bash 465 total 5290
bash/slay 22
slash/crit 2118
bash/crit 207 slay% 5.33%
slash/crip 0 crit% 43.95%
bash/crip 0 crip%
0.00%

ROFLMAO!!!!

We have agro.... and agro.... and, well that's about it.
And Paladins want to take that from us too!

He meant good SKs. Not forum warrior sks.

Critical checked before Crippling Blow (from TBL beta):

But can get a bonus Crippling Blow w/ a critical:

Fighting in EW yesterday. Only undead. No melee discs used.

Slay Undead AA 14/16
1: Increase Chance to Slay Undead by 5.2% with 3150 Damage Mod

Slash Slays: 274
Slash attacks: 5299
Slay rate: 5.170%

For those posting expected results what is your heroic dex in raid gear?

Ive spent all my aa in Turn Undead, I realized it!

To be fair I was merely stating that there is a powerful class already that has had plenty of undead abilities that havent been needed or used it many expansions. Now they get to use them and more power has ensued.

And it isnt clerics...

HDex apx 1359 in that run of 5299 slashes
Displayed Dex 2379

Is everyone else also chain casting?

Ok .. so .. instead of fixing Necro dots .. they get an undead expansion to play in! ?