Devs have literally destroyed paladins and no one is saying a word

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tutankamen, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. Livvy_CT Lorekeeper

    I could easily heal through a healer having to duck, paladins are in an awesome place.
  2. FawnTemplar Augur

    Slay undead procs right?
    Allayna likes this.
  3. Qbert Augur

    Slay undead isn't a proc, but I get your meaning nonetheless.
  4. Sancus Augur

    No, the chance to Slay Undead against a valid target is the Base1 value of SPA 219 divided by 10000 (e.g. 600 / 10000 = 6% chance), which is additive with multiple SPA 219 effects.

    That's kind of what I was getting at with providing data; slay is not super complicated. A parse against an undead flagged combat dummy for a few hours (or even shorter) can verify if it's still working correctly. Now, it's technically possible there are additional variables at play that are causing slay not to proc in grouping situations, but you can get data on that as well. I'm just skeptical this thread was predicated on anything of that sort.
    FawnTemplar likes this.
  5. Bamboompow Augur

    Hey there you go. Use a dummy. Then you can be buffless and naked for all intents, although dummies do have the ability to riposte. Might want to at least wear your combat thong armored underwears. Basically the parse has to be clean as in as few variables as possible. Naked will take the parameters down to a very extreme base level. You are not parsing dps. You are parsing how often a passive ability activates.
  6. Sobmre Augur

    none of these comments matter because pallys are so used to being in a very far 3rd place tanks that they for got it was suppose to be warriors are the best tank with a Pallys and SK's in second.

    SK's are light years ahead of paladins in ability's .

    Look at Act of Valor, i mean my god, what a totally ability GREAT IDEA THE "TANK" CAN KILL HIMSELF to save the clr....... for about 15 secs till the clr does is without a doubt the dumbest ability in mmo gaming.
  7. Bamboompow Augur

    Well AoV seems like a great tool in your war chest if you absolutely have to take a poop in the middle of a raid.

    Other games have "sacrifice" for so called pious factions or classes. Even in a game like Supreme Commander the Aeon faction units can kill themselves and transfer their life to another. Its not a new concept or original to EQ. Is it practical? No. I think I hit AoV once on my paladin to see what it did. Same story as every other paladin. If you have to use this ability the fight is already lost.
  8. Skuz Augur

    I have a feeling that the OP posting was predicated on 1. They don't know what they are talking about 2. They suck but can't admit it even to themselves so felt that they needed to try & make themselves feel better with a speculative & highly subjective post with no facts to support their position whatsoever. or 3. Both 1 & 2
    Duder likes this.
  9. Angahran Augur

    So, you gained a aoe ability where previously you had a single target ability.
    So, something new.
  10. Bamboompow Augur

    Just 5-ish days ago Paladins were just tanks. Sorta. Kinda like Loki to Thor. Powerful but still considered a bit of the runt anyway. Always something to prove....
    With my Paladin, slays were always sort of viewed as a bonus. Thus, not plugged into the calculus of what should be and shouldn't be.
    Its doubtful that the OP as a player totally sucks. They just expected some kind of Slay version of the cannon on the A-10 aircraft with ToV. There is hype and reality.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. Waitwhat Journeyman

    Yes, but give all pallies some love bro. For so many years the least desirable tank class in general, but at least they have had a pretty good time on undead mobs. Now; New expansion with many undead zones and they "FARK" the pallies over! That was uncalled for and so short-sighted. Let the pallies slay the undeads like nobody's business for Pete's sake! Who will it hurt? NO ONE! The game needs some cool stereotype class traits. What happened to just plain having fun? Who needs the "my calculations say that I am not having fun if the pallies get to slay undeads like before. Numbers are unfair, does not compute in my should be or shoulnt be realm of thought , I am going to complain on forums...bzzzzt ... bzzzzt"

    No offense meant!
  12. shiftie Augur

    Before the change I could position myself appropriately > cast type of zoom and move it into a hall way or relatively safe spot > leap of faith > heroic leap onto the eye > invis potion and clear a see invis room with some ingenuity now heroic leap adds ae aggro defeating the above method

    I gained something sure and lost something very valuable to me. While I appreciate the new ae aggro it should have been an independent ability. As is I don’t much like it. Leaping into a mob past others was a great boon to single a target. I now have to hope it doesn’t trigger a mob in another room
  13. shiftie Augur

    Cross posting this from another thread because the data lovers don’t like feels

  14. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    I have to agree with Sheldon TBBG that the incorrect use of literally is very irritating. :)

    I am literally sitting here irritated by it. And that is how you use literally.
    Elyssanda likes this.
  15. Sancus Augur

    This is interesting.

    This is what I'm seeing on an undead flagged combat dummy:
    Paladin -vs- Combat Dummy Paza II: -- DMG: 352821343 -- DPS: 63026 -- Scaled: 63026 -- Slash: 348637208 -- DirDmg: 4184135 -- % dmg as normal: 56.6% -- % dmg as critical: 43.4% -- Non-crit rate: 59% -- crit rate: 41% -- Attempts: 11000 -- Hits: 8550 -- Missed: 2450 -- Accuracy: 77.7% -- Avg Hit: 41265 -- Max hit: 432318 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Of those 8550 hits, 234 were direct damage and the remaining 8316 were slash. I had 461 hits flagged as slay undead, or 5.54%. My slay undead chance is 5.2%, so that seems pretty spot on.

    Environmental hits are damage shields, so those aren't valid for slay undead. I went to Lceanium (this Paladin does not own ToV), but there was a group there so I had to cut testing short. This sample is far too small, but I saw 42 slays over 721 slash and 116 bash hits (5.0%).

    To reconcile our different proc rates, a few possibilities:
    1. I used no activated abilities at all. It's possible there's some bug that lowers slay proc rate related to something activated.
    2. It's possible some activated abilities (or other forms of damage) that are not eligible for slay are inflating your divisor.
    3. It's possible there's a messaging error related to slay that only appears in conjunction with activated abilities (somewhat similar to how twinproc was recently causing procs to be flagged as twinprocs inaccurately).
    FawnTemplar and kizant like this.
  16. yepmetoo Augur

    Just ran a 41 minute parse on a combat dummy FROM BEHIND (I want to run same thing from the front, not sure if I can get strikethrough on the mob to be good enough to matter though).

    4101 successful slashes
    254 slays

    6.19% with slay undead 13/14 (supposed to be 5.5%, so not a big enough parse to get even within 10% of true value).

    So doesn't seem bugged.

    But a 2% rate on slay 12 seems pretty out of bounds even of luck. It makes me wonder if they ninja nerfed something like, making it so you don't slay on riposte on mob you are not targeting, or something like that. Or if strikethrough affects if.

    However, literally first slay from the front attacking the mob, (Riposte Strikethrough Slay Undead) so doesn't seem likely for the second thing.

    Parsing the first idea would require tanking a live mob with an undead mob beating on you from the front, to really prove it.
    kizant and Sancus like this.
  17. yepmetoo Augur

    Sorry, meant 15/16 slay undead.
  18. Wulfhere Augur

    Or simply target yourself, /autoattack off, while tanking a trivial swarm of undead using your bare hand (and shield if you like) and see how many slays you get. Could even try a shield and no-damage primary to see if bash riposte slays work at the proper rate.

    In either test case, if zero slays counted then off-target slays have been stealth nerfed and that would lower the total percentage since all those riposte swings have to be discounted from the ratio.
  19. shiftie Augur

    For reference I am at slay 14/16 and have much less hdex than a raid geared paladin. If they reduced the natural proc rate to have a certain level of hdex mod it back to normal than I’m genuinely disappointed.

    I didn’t cook numbers and I didn’t pull the parse data with expectations. Was totally surprised by the data and none of it lines up according to what it was supposed to be.
  20. Bamboompow Augur

    Anyone done this data collection with a 2 hander? Supposedly it should be entirely feasible for most.

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