Devs - Do people use VM ware for work?

In the spirit of the discussion - please expand on your point. Simply saying you're wrong there's an impact doesn't really offer much to the conversation. If there's some big impact that I'm missing here provide us with some details.

I don't need to explain myself. Just because you don't agree with me, doesn't mean I haven't "added much to the conversation". By your own admission, you haven't added much either, because I don't agree with you. Careful of that knife, it cuts both ways.

If you want an actual answer to your question, talk to DBG. They are the ones that make the rules.

So are we questioning if its ok to have VM ware on your PC or to use VMware to bypass true box?

I'm unclear why you bothered to post if you feel like I didn't add much, and you don't want to add any value. You are right, there is no need to explain yourself...there's no rule that say you need to. It's just weird that rather than explaining your position you're deflecting. My suspicion is you actually don't know of any big impact this has on other players, as this isn't a normal response from someone who actually has a thought out opinion on the subject.

I'm totally open to changing my opinion on this subject, but I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that this is some how a major problem in EQ and time needs to be wasted suspending or banning these people.

Who's "we"? I absolutely believe that some folks caught up in this suspension wave did nothing wrong.

Seems pretty clear, suspending people for using a VM to PLAY is a violation of the rules. That’s fine.
Suspension of any player for running ANY additional software on their machine that does not interact with EQ.exe is not fine and a gross overstep. (Assuming that actually happened).

Advising against and having it clearly defined in TOS/EULA are not one in the same. Advice is not a rule.
Just my opinion.

I am one who has stated there is VMware on my computers, and did. It receive a suspension or ban. Is it because I've not been playing on a TLP though? If those were the servers targeted, can you see how someone may not have been caught up in this mess?

There's no harm in clearing defining what the rules are and why these people were deemed "cheating" or as using a VM when clearly so many are certain they were doing neither.

My biggest issue with this whole thing is lack of communication. I appreciate Dreamweaver rounding us up a couple days ago and watching the posts so people don't overflame. But thats the most communication i've seen on DBG's end. Personally my ticket is still open which means they have not outright said deal with it. It makes me think its being investigated but the silence isn't helping. It also makes me think they know they made some mistakes. Which is fine, I'm not blaming them for that. I just want it resolved as I am sure others do as well.

@xmPradah I am sure it's because you don't play on a truebox. Running a VM to circumnavigate truebox code is against the rules. I can't think of a reason people would run a VM on a live server or why they'd want to.

I don't care what you think about what I think. This subject has been talked about already, so feel free to Google. Of course that isn't what you are after here, so feel free to have yet another conversation about it with yourself.

The fact is, you abide by DBG's rules, whatever they may be, or you risk access to the game. No amount of "spirit of discussion" in threads designed to try & sway opinion on a stance DBG is not deviating from, is going to change anything. As the subject has already been discussed in other threads by the same people, feel free to Google answers to your questions. I'm not going to regurgitate it all.

Regards.

If someone asks DBG, "Can I get banned for running VMWare" and the answer is, "I advise you don't run VMWare", that's a little more direct than him just saying he advises against it out of nowhere. Especially since DBG will not ever give a direct list of what can get you banned. Compared, for instance, to their lack of clarity in these threads, it speaks volumes.

Is it really reasonable to advise people to not run software on their machine that doesn’t interact with EQ? You want a locked down ecosystem...make console games.

You game on a Mac, Linux, or cloud gaming platform. But DBG has ruled out all those customers via the no VM to play period rule.

I've argued for at least seven years, ever since that Prathun post, that it isn't.

That doesn't change the fact that SoE and now DBG have refused to change their position. I don't think the policy is rational or fair at all. I'm simply trying to educate folks to the history, and let you also know that you are unlikely to change DBG's position on this, because the same arguments have been made every time people have been suspended for VM use going back to 2012.

Except discussion does sway opinion, that's the entire point of discussion. DBG in the past were pretty adamant about never doing AoC's but the public was able to change their mind on that. They're now also discussing a non true box server. You sound more like someone who's just gleeful about people getting suspended and rubbing their nose in it.

You guys are missing some key factors here. It doesn't matter if anyone advises you to do or not do. The rules, as shown here, say 1) you are not allowed to play multiple characters at the same time from a single computer 2)playing on virtual machines. The rules are very black and white. IF you play multiple accounts via VM you are breaking the rules. (apparently on any server).

With that said the rules do not state "we advice not having a VM on your computer". They can't say that because they cannot dictate what you have on your personal computer. You are 100% allowed to have any hacking program you want on your computer. They cannot stop you from having this. The difference is when you use a VM or a hacking program WITH EQ then you are breaking the rules.

So having a VM on your computer without using it for EQ is 100% within the rules. I personally was suspended for having a VM on my PC but I also did not use it for EQ. It's not my fault DBG cannot detect you are playing EQ within a VM. They obviously just suspend accounts that had a VM running on a PC whether said VM was running EQ or not. This has been said many times by many people.

To put it in layman's terms. If I bought a gun to shoot soandso (I hope no one on the forums is named soandso) I have not commit a crime. I simply own a gun now. IF I were to shoot soandso then I may be arrested for committing a crime. Otherwise, as said, I just own a gun which is not a crime.

His point was a former employee did advise against running VMs on your machine (which is stupid) and the fact that the “rules” (technically what your quoting isn’t even the terms of service) does allow them to suspend you for any reason they want. Neither are overly reasonable.

Also what you quoted does have their catch all of “3rd party software”, which is impossible to run the game and not have other software run, but hey....it’s against the rules.

I understand what they mean. And I am sure their advise was sound because they knew what DBG scans for when they look for a VM. And it would seem all they want to know is if a VM is running while EQ is running. And not if EQ is running inside a VM. Obviously one of these is suspendable/banable and the other is not. When he advises people not to run a EQ alongside a VM he is basically saying DBG doesn't know the difference if you are running EQ in or out of the VM so to be safe shut your VM down.

This is part of it, but keep in mind too that this policy as it originated really had nothing to do with EQ. In 2013 they really didn't care if people ran EQ in a VM, because it didn't give you any advantage to do so. If anything they were more concerned with people running a linux box for showeq at that point. But mostly it was a company wide policy directed at Planetside, that EQ players got caught on the edges of. The very fact there were discussions about it in 2013 long before truebox existed should tell you that running EQ in a VM to bypass truebox is NOT the only concern the company has with VM's.

I think they've taken their long standing policy of no VM's period, and dusted it off and directed it specifically against truebox players to try to cut down on truebox abuses. In doing so, apparently they've remained consistent with the 2013 position--no VM's alongside eq, regardless of whether you are using them for eq or not. But in a targetted way that hasn't hit everyone, because no live players have had issues, and not even every truebox player has had issues.

The posts on here trying to paint the very few innocents that were caught up in this as victims (if there were any), are not discussions. If someone was caught up in this innocently, I think all feel bad for them, but that is not the point. This is text meant to make it seem as if a big problem exists with what happened, and big ole bad DBG is at fault. No one is buying it, no matter how many accounts are made to post here, or people trying to make this false impression.

Doing the above is not comparative to the AoC discussion, and the non true box question asked by DBG.

You will not sway anyone, as there really exists no point.

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