@Dev - Temple of Veeshan Instance is missing "Lord Vyemm" dragon

Just putting this here in hopes that Lord Vyemm is added back into the ToV instance for Coirnav before the fall release of Velious.

Mob: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=6565

I am 50/50 on if they intentionally took him out of the instances.

I remember this mob being pretty awful when I was in a casual guild. No problems clearing the rest of the zone, but dang that Vyemm! He is pretty rough for low to medium sized raids.

Another one of those shocking things you can't believe they ignored for an entire expansion.

Meanwhile alchemy gets gutted.

Probably ignored cause most people running ToV were doing it for specific Vulak drops and didn't make a lot of noise about this bug because not having to kill Vyemm is great.

I support this because we killed nearly all Vyemms in era and want to see more twitch streams of entire guilds getting catapulted into lava.

Does the phrase "in era" even count for anything at all any more?

Surely the guild that killed Lord Vyemm on Dec 5 2001 had a rougher time of it than anyone who killed it on any progression server in the last 5 years. Despite it being "out of era."

Vyemm's a pain in the butt no matter how much has changed. Second only to Lady Nev.

Vyemm is easy enough, we did him plenty of times IN instances on Phinny... Just know the strat and you don't fly into lava like a nub

I would argue a 50 man guild now, with equal knowledge of the encounter, has it rougher with MOTM.

Vyemm was hard back then, but not that hard, you burned him down pretty fast before. Now with MOTM that fight drags out quite a bit longer then it ever did in the old days.

You have clearly thought this through, and typically salivate at the chance to make a 2 page rebuttal post, so I shall wait for it!

The motm buff isn't anywhere close to where it needs to be to match classic damage output of players vs npc's. Even with motm, guilds still mow over Vyemm quite a bit easier than when it was in era. I remember killing him back when Velious was new and on phinny and I was surprised at how fast he died on phinny.

Show me a parse from 2001 and I'll believe it. With motm our melee are hitting for poop now, and Vyemm has way more hp then he did previously. High end raiders were also a lot worse at the game back then compared to now.

Perhaps P99 being in Velious means we have players here that have recently done both and can chime in on how much more annoying the fight is with MoTM.

It's not really a fair comparison because of the patch that revamped mob HP to eliminate mod rod use back in the day. The current MoTM version more closely aligns with the post mod rod versions.

If they undid that patch the content wouldn't be any harder either, we would just have mages stacking rod formations like the old days.

P99 NToV dragons are not permarooted, they get pulled to entrance and it trivializes a large number of the fights because you remove the environment from the equation.

Vyemm in Velious was a different fight because you could pull him to Aaryonars pit and clerics could avoid the AE. After Luclin and focus effects came in and dragons got permarooted, you could put clerics in the inner left cubby and range the AE but have range on tank for CH with ER2/3 focuses.

Still in that era it was a 3-4 min fight.

Vyemm is not 2nd to any dragon in NTOV. It's the only hard dragon.

Lady Nev is not HARD. It is just a long fight. No one wipes to Lady Nev, even with 40 people. It just takes a long time with less people. Yet, guilds will wipe to Lord Vyemm even with 50 people.

Players are bad. Clerics are bad. People don't really care that much about raiding. They half- everything and don't take anything serious because they are just crushing everything else with their guild.

These are bad combos for Lord Vyemm. You can't just have 1/3 of your medium sized raid slack off. You need real clerics that can do something besides a Cheal chain.

Only if officers/raid leader let them. Even the best players make a mistake once in a while, and everyone has on occasional off night. But if a high level of performance is expected and required, a high level of performance is what you will usually get.

You'll always have slackers in most guilds. The best guilds just have so many more players and better gear, it doesn't matter if people slack as long as you have core pullers, tanks, clerics, the DPS can be pretty bad. Not sure if you ever watch people when they stream EQ. Finding one who is playing the game very well, is hard.

This isn't back in the day. Everyone has access to everything so bad players don't just stay in bad guilds who never do hard content. I'm just saying that Lord Vyemm would be the bottleneck for a lot of guilds. You can't force people to be faster on their heals when they get flung into the wall and a fraction of a second really does matter. And if you boot everyone who isn't 100%, you won't have a guild left.

Very few guilds are that strict. They want people and 75% effort from most people is good enough to clear just about all content. It just all adds up to making Vyemm much more difficult than all the other dragons.

I am not knocking bad players or people who don't give 100% on raids. People play this game for different reasons and some just want to play and don't care about being the best while playing and there is nothing wrong with being casual. I am just giving points to support the theory that they have purposely taken Vyemm out of instances to make it easier on the general population.

Since when is an encounter being difficult a bad thing? There is no way Vyemm was removed because its too hard, I do not believe that for a second. Why remove the only challenging mob from that entire zone? Has to be a bug.

Especially since they specifically put motm on him to make him harder. If he was too hard they could have just removed motm or toned it down.

Obviously he isn't too hard. On Phinny, 19 guilds beat him, out of 19 that attempted him. On Agnarr it looks to be 17 out of 18 or so. Virtually no one is actually getting stopped by him.

I see someone is trying to stir the pot, as per usual. You didn't seem so worried about this feature on Phinny when you lived in instanced content.

Here's what I think this whole post is about; control. You're wanting to get Vyemm added back to the instance so that most casual guilds struggle, making it easier for you to poach other players to keep your guild afloat. The reality is Vyemm is overtuned with MotM. The mechanics of the fight are tedious, annoying and down right unfun. This was originally designed to be a burn fight but MotM makes the fight longer than it needs to be and so all of those annoying mechanics go on for entirely too long.

Either the fight needs to be retuned or continue to remain out of the instance. Consider open world hard mode and instance normal mode. I mean the two are viewed this way anyway, it isn't like this is the only situation where the instance version of a raid is somewhat less annoying than open world.

tl;dr: Coirnav's one and only open world guild is trying to manipulate DBG into fixing something for its own benefit that has been like this for years. I sincerely hope that DBG doesn't allow themselves to be manipulated by a player that has a history of stirring the pot. Cheers.

There are multiple issues with your numbers here.

On phinigel, there were two issues. #1 you could skip him by killing his guards and then next time you opened the instance, he wasn't there. This was done by multiple guilds. #2 For a good amount of Velious, you could kill rooted NTOV mobs using a pet trick so you could do the entire fight with the mob never attacking back.

On agnarr, he didn't spawn in instances so only 2 guilds killed Lord Vyemm and 1 of them was 1 kill at the very end of the expansion.