Dev...plz,forget all those Game Balance cxxp and make this game fun again.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mell, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. Mell Journeyman

    No kidding,I played EQ from 1999 when max level is 49 and L Guk is the best place to go.At that time,stats and proc/effect on items are really worth to spend time chasing/camping.But now,2019,I dont care about what kind of proc on weapon,what stats/effect on armor,what spell in the next expansion.Because everyone knows what they will be.

    You guys care about game balance too much and now item/spell lacks of fun-part(some classes' unique abilities got nerfed too.You said they are too powerful and I agree with you,but nerf them made this game LESS FUN and more people quit.)

    Maybe its too much to ask,but could you make EQ a good fun GAME again.Makes new fun proc/spell/clickable AA/clicky instead of 5% stats/damage-ratio increment pattern in every new expansion.
    NeverPayForLag and Zunnoab like this.
  2. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    Found the problem.
  3. Zunnoab Augur

    Fun is the number one thing here. These changes seem to be made to regress the game to how it was before fun and useful abilities were added.

    I don't want 1999 EverQuest and I don't want 2005 EverQuest. I think the game got better over time and I strongly feel this constant string of hard nerfs, additional timers, linked timers, and rollbacks, and cost increases are a massive devolution of the design of the game.

    It adds no fun, in some cases increases tedium, in some cases rolls back prior improvements, and most importantly contributes to a negative perception that both drives people from the game and makes welcoming back returning members much more difficult. These changes are huge red flags to returning players, and I'm positive some were driven away by them just as some were driven away from the game due to them.

    The players should not have the perception of changes as the developers removing or ruining things. It's been that way for years now.
    sauron3030, Spellfire and Raccoo like this.
  4. Vumad Cape Wearer

    Unfortunately many don't seem to realize why old EQ worked and why that EQ wont work now.

    Corpse runs and long med times worked back then because EQ was a chat room. It's not any more. People chatter while they play on voice services so the game has evolved to move at a faster pace. No amount of nostalgia will bring back the feeling of med times with an open book on the screen. Technology changed. The world has changed. The game changed with it. Reverting to these old concepts for nostalgia or whatever logic behind them is a failure.

    The population of the game has also had a big impact. Fade may not work great with the lore but lets remember why more classes have progressively gotten these abilities. The demographics of the game has changed and optimization of groups is not the option it once was. People are calling for GMM nerfs yet the other night we struggled through it with 2 clerics, a druid, a ranger, a paladin and a 6th low level tagging along. Do you think anyone wanted that class makeup in the group? It's what was available so we made it work. Now we want to nerf GMM and nerf fade? Who pulls the mess of GMM? Not the paladin since the mobs were bumped to yellow cons and not the ranger since harmonious arrow doesn't work (we tried, it went horrific because it didn't work) and cover tracks is getting nerfed. The druid evac split, but that could get nerfed too.

    So who wants to play THAT game? The game where group content is laid out in which it needs to be split or CC'ed (good, yay) but only a select few classes can do it (bad, boo), and when the group isn't optimized due to low player populations, what is the solution? Blend class abilities so even the mage can get a fade split in every once in a while. Rotate a group of 6 with everyone having a 5 minute fade timer and you can move along reasonably well without a chanter or bard.

    Fade nerfs are a horrifically terrible idea. Elemental bane damage is a horrifically terrible idea. Lots of ideas are going to be terrible ideas because they try to "balance" the game today to be more like a game that is no longer fun.
    Zunnoab, Teylana, Skuz and 1 other person like this.
  5. Fcseven XIII Journeyman

    The developers are on a frenzy balancing the world most of us have been a part of for almost 20 years. I feel an overbalanced game micro managed to the extreme is absolutely no fun. Don’t make the game as bland as vanilla ice cream.
  6. kizant Augur

    Unbalance is very not fun. :(
  7. Fian Augur

    For the record, the last zone with unusual loot items is revamped Seb. Weapons with AE attacks, etc.
  8. Raccoo Augur

    Belts from GMM. Changeable augs, luck stat, and evolving items from TBL. Flawless diamond items like the Apothic rod, or OT hammer from ROS?
  9. Vumad Cape Wearer


    Often a lack of balance is actually more about jealously. Bard can fade and a mage can not is not fair. Mages can fade when only bards should be able to is not fair. SKs do more DPS than paladins is not fair. Paladins can rez and heal their group when SKs can not is not fair. Monks can Mez is not fair. Enchanters can fade is not fair.

    This is not a PVP game. Perfect balance doesn't matter. The for tat, this and that class wars are hurting everyone.

    When I came back (always mained an enchanter) and saw what rangers could do for pulling and CC I felt a bit robbed in that it took away from my value as an enchanter. That is until I was maining my cleric box one night with no monk, bard, enc, etc in the group and the ranger was filling the pull / cc gap that would have been crippling to the efficiency of the group. Then I understood the value of the changes that had been made. Now we are walking away from that value because the game is "out of balance".

    When we rely on just 3 or 4 of the 16 classes to pull and about 2 of them to crowd control, the complaint becomes that the multiple pulls are too hard for most groups. Then we regress to having content designed with a lack of CC and pulling in mind or content that has it but groups are slow to form because a needed role can't be filled due to a lack of availability. Diversification can throw off balance slightly but it makes the game more fun because it adds flexibility to content. Groups form faster and move fluidly despite a lack of optimization and maximum performance. Unless people start saying "we don't need monks to pull because mages do it better" the game is still balanced.

    The game is more out of balance when an enchanter/bard/monk is or is not a requirement to succeed than it is out of balance when a ranger utilized wide open areas and absolute chaos struggle through well designed content. Or mages fade/tag a pull, or druid succor split, and so forth. It works, but it's very not optimal, and that desire for better is what is logical and reasonable balance.
  10. kizant Augur

    That's silly. You don't compare classes based on a single ability. You compare them as a whole to one another. And you don't call it 'unfair' when one archetype is unable to perform the job of another. Do you understand what a class is supposed to represent?

    The real problem on these forums is a lot of people want their own class to be able to do everything and for everything to be easy. They want to be overpowered and have 'fun' and for there to be no challenge, like you have god mode turned on or something. All so that they get bored in a few weeks and quit. Because after you do that it's no longer even a game.

    These fade changes look to be applied pretty fairly across all groups. The only real complaint seems to be over the cost, which I do understand can be an issue for some classes. This is where the players need to point out specifics related to their own class and make an argument for why something more needs to be done. Whether it's changing the fade implementation a bit or making changes to other abilities to mitigate the new problem that is created due to the changes, etc. But it needs to be on a case by case basis.
    Suffer, Petalonyx, Belexes and 3 others like this.
  11. Lianeb Augur

  12. Petalonyx Augur

    Well said, Kizant.
  13. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    I make my own fun. The only thing that gets in the way of my mastery of things in EQ is "fake difficulty".... I won't embellish on what it is....stated many elsewhere... TBL smoke trials, etc.
  14. Vumad Cape Wearer

    I'm confused. I thought we were in complete agreement as I read your reply until the last sentence where you seemed to be attacking me? It's weird you took my point, said the exact same thing in a different set of words and then finished by asking me if I knew how it all worked. Very strange.
  15. Angahran Augur

    If every class can do everything just as well as every other class then what is the point of classes ?
  16. kizant Augur

    What do we agree on exactly? I think balance actually is important and that most those things you listed as being unfair are actually fair.
  17. Vumad Cape Wearer


    I was giving examples of the arguments that occur on the forums. I agree they are fair. It was satire.

    When I said balance wasn't that important, I only meant that it seems that some attempts to create balance are striving to achieve a perfect 1:1 ratio which is not really possible given the complexity of balance. Splitting hairs in the quest for perfection doesn't really make the game better or worse it just frustrates people.
  18. kizant Augur

    It was confusing when you said that lack of balance was about jealously. Then you listed things for people to be jealous over as if they were examples of lack of balance. When they really were examples of class balance.
  19. Bobokin Augur

    Template items with almost the same stats have made the game boring. Balancing classes to make them closer to the same is boring. Nerfing classes to cut down on fun is boring. New zones that are really old zones are boring. Reballancing zones to cater to the raiders is boring. It is all boring.

    I guess we can wait to EQ Next. Oh wait, that was cancelled because it was ... boring.
  20. Sobmre Augur

    The problem is the Dev's don't play eq......Well not "really" play eq anyways, if they did then they would not do a lot of crap they do. and would actually be in touch with the game population and the changes made would reflect what the majority would like to see.........