Defiant dropping, level 51 players on Lockjaw

First, if you wear it and don't put on ornamentation, you are a moron. ;-)

Second, if you try to exploit something like this you are a moron, as you can't "hide" the data.

Third, this should be a non-issue as a quick query of the db could reveal any instances of that any defiant, anywhere. It should be trivial to delete them. It just takes time. It's not rocket science. Furthermore, if you plan ahead, the time needed is minimal (minutes).

I have absolutely no doubt that a targeted fix could have been done (in theory), and would have affected a very small percentage of the players. [Edit: It sounds like this was the case and the plan, but it didn't work flawlessly] But, it would have taken hours, or even days, to figure out exactly what to do, and test it, if the necessary code and scripts hadn't been prepared ahead of time as a contingency for if/when something like this happened.

If I had been in charge of TLP, I would already have taken the time to pre-populate a table of valid item ID's of ANYTHING that can be bought/dropped/looted in the game at this point in time (ie anything a character can have in bank/shared/inv/etc). This would be added to when Kunark opened, and would grow with each expansion or update.

I would then routinely (at least several times a day) have an automated background query look for any items owned by players that have id's that are not in that table (SELECT DISTINCT WHERE NOT IN is your friend here). This query would take no longer than 5 minutes to run with properly indexed tables, even with tens of millions of rows. and you would run it as part of validating the last hot backup.

This will find ANY mistake, or exploit, of items, that ended up in a player inventory, *regardless* of the type of bug that led to it!!!.

It also gives you a very simple way to delete items that should not be there, because you have a "golden standard" of what are, and are not, valid items. Simple. But it takes time to create.

Deleting characters that should still be locked is a trivial, targeted deletion.

Deleting spells that should be not mem'd is a trivial, targeted deletion.

In short, this could have all be done without a full-on rollback of *days*...affecting *all* players, when in fact *most* players were unaffected by the bug. That is just awful, last resort kind of thing. [Edit: and it doesn't sound like this happened, which is great!\

But it would have taken time, if the necessary prepatory time hadn't been done well in advance, and a plan of action put in place to deal with such a scenario.

It sounds like the plan was this:

"If something bad like this ever happens, we can always rollback".

I'm sorry, but that's not real planning.

That's punting. ;-)

I'm not complaining though, and it is understandable. DBG is *very* understaffed at the moment...

So without investing many hours/days, this was probably there only realistic option available to them, unfortunately.

[Edit: again, it sounds like only certain characters were rolled back, but it does sound like some characters that should not have been rolled back were. I'm sure more drama will unfold shortly lol]

It *sounds* like if your toon in any way did anything that could have caused it to be "flagged" by their logic as having had faulty data, then that toon was rolled back ~2 days to ensure all "mung" was eradicated.

Like levelling to 51 (even if on accident).

Like claiming a reward you had no business claiming.

Or going to a zone you had no business going to (or worse, camping out in one!!!)

Or buying a spell you had no business buying.


The DBA probably created a multifaceted script consisting of many queries which "search for" players that would then be flagged for any of the above conditions, or perhaps many more.

And then if you were flagged, you were rolled back 2 days to when the bug was FIRST introduced into the system.

Not first found, but first introduced. Remember, first reported does not mean first found, and certainly does not mean first abused!!! For example, the spell bug could have been there for 2 full days.

It also sounds like this logic to find the affected players may have had a bug, and been a bit too liberal...

We'll probably never know, but I'm sure there was a logic behind why some toons were touched, and others were not.

It may seem inconsistent from the outside looking in, but I'm sure there were VERY relevant reasons.

In particular, if you could be ruled out a being "clean", you were untouched

If not, you were rolled back.

They probably do not have the necessary staff, nor did they want to bring the servers down, for the amount of time it would take to do a scalpel-precision modification of only the affected characters.

So instead, they will clean everything up with petitions. This way at least he server is up and playable...

I love how people think they know how the data is saved in EQ just because they've used an access database in the past.

Well looks like those of us who pointed out DBG's casual approach to game management were right after all. Your time is meaningless because they consider it free.
Hate being right.
Any way we can get you guys to leave stuff the heck alone from here on out??? ... No?
Heh guess its back to FV as a freebie. See what the wife wants to do after this, my guess is rip someones lungs out...but I could be wrong

If so, then their incompetence is even grander than the huge incompetence previously thought:

My character was level 42. I was leveling in solB with guildes and solo-ing named drops in Lguk. When I dinged I bought spells from a merchant that are in-era spells.

So.........yeah.....I got rolled back over 48 hours. Why?

Looks like Ragefire is going to get an influx of out of era items as soon as the transfers happen.

Translation: we will lazy and incompetent and treat our customers like absolute crap then ignore their complaints.

I was level 42 solo-ing in lower guk .

I got rolled back over 48 hours.

How the F*(% did this "affect my character" ????

Whatever method" or dislogic you applied it was wrong.
And, its not just me, listen in on /ooc various guild chats, General and these forums.

You screwed and pissed of a *TON* of paying customers

How is it that no one has mentioned anything of the duped items?
I admit I have things that were placed in the shared bank and remain both there, and in the original characters' bank.
It's only ~10k worth of items that were duplicated, but I would expect I'm not the only one.

I don't quite care so much if someone else had gained X, Y, or Z item; but there may be more significance when a % of players experienced the same. This will lead to further inflation that's going to catch like wildfire soon enough.

Wrong again.

I lost raid loot + levels + PP across three characters, none of which left classic zones and one never even logged in Sunday until after the rollbacks.

tainted needs a wipe!@

They would be silly to allow the transfers now before this is resolved.

Unless they're considering this resolved and walking away from it. I'm surprised we've heard nothing at all official yet here today.

that is fine as long as I get all the krono I have purchased over and above my actual monthly to help alleviate the cost increase to purchasable items..

anything bought without of game money WOULD need to be refunded back to the players (there should be a good list of who bought what and when as bean counters always keep good books)

THIS won't happen because it will COST DBG a ton of money .. they would rather hope that they can maybe make amends BUT for many their high handed FIX was just so bad that the players have already given up playing ..

I have cancelled and can't play at this time .. about to log and run now so I got shafted all the way around

by the time they work through petitions I will be old and grey probably since they seem to be so under staffed ..

IT is sad THAT i was actually enjoying the game on LJ up to this point BUT NO longer and it has definitely done serious harm to the decent community that was there as the trolls are as rude as possible to people WHO are rightfully annoyed with what occurred

actually I don't think kronos cost dbg any more its pixels, they could easily award every account a krono instead of free 30 days I would imagine.