Dear Devs:

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Venau, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. Venau Augur

    I jump on this site almost weekly and keep noticing questions about a potential necro DoT revamp.

    I understand the overwhelming complexity of this class rebuild. (that's what it really is right?) I understand what you are up against.

    I thought I'd suggest something that may be of help. As I mentioned in another post...would it be possible to add another level or two to our Lingering Death AA line? If so....could you allow us to toggle this additional level or two *ON* and *OFF*?

    I don't know what the final result would be. But I can see how it might be much easier for you guys to do something like this instead of a complete class rebuild. The potential benefits would include necro dots gaining value in the group game due to faster dps ramp time. Obviously, during raids, many of us like to stack DoTs and are addicted to doing so. In this case we could just toggle *OFF* and play the way we do now.

    Just a suggestion. I'd be willing to help/test/chat, etc.
  2. menown Augur

    The initial intent of the DoT changes was to reduce the number of debuff slots used up by the necro class on raid encounters. I don't think your solution of turning off Lingering Death so necros can DoT more on raids would fix that issue.
  3. Brohg Augur

    I don't think OP understands what Lingering Death does?
  4. Beergoggles Elder

    The biggest problem was the leadership and direction taken for doing the class dot revamps. You'd think logic would dictate that if doing a dot revamp the priority would be to do the premier dot class first. This would build a baseline from which to scale the rest of the class dot changes. Otherwise you end up with completely unbalanced dot changes that required nerfs/fixing thus pushing back other dot fixes. If necro dots would have been done first they could have gotten their dps adjusted to where they want them in the game then scaled the other class dot changes compared to necro dot dmg and dps.
  5. Brohg Augur

    No, I'd think the priority would be to know wtf you're doing before messing up the class to whom the changes are most fundamental, and so you'd do them last.
    Azmodeus likes this.
  6. Venau Augur

    Whelp, it sure seems like a total and complete class rebuild is something more complex than the Devs have time to tackle. I understand the initial desire to reduce buff slots on raid targets. Unfortunately it seems like there will need to be a compromise somewhere.

    To clarify: What I'm thinking is adding another couple of levels to Ling Death that reduce the duration of each DoT while increasing the dmg per server tick. Same thing as levels 4-6 already do. This would positively impact necro group DPS. So spend the AA to get the hypothetical levels 7-9. Leave levels 7-9 toggled *ON* while grouping. When it's time to raid just toggle them off and your DoTs function exactly as they do now.

    Talk of necro DoT revamp began BEFORE the most recent Lingering Death changes. Those most recent changes, as you most definitely know, reduced the amount of buff slots we use on a raid target. I know, I know...lots of changes in the game with respect to optimal raid play via other classes have since eaten those freed up buff slots. But we didn't cause this. My suggestion does nothing to alter current buff slot usage. Or maybe it does? Maybe you assign one necro to keep the hypothetical levels 7-9 active. Maybe that necro hits Impose every time it's up? This would actually free up a few buff slots.

    Or wait!! Maybe...just maybe.....after a bit of testing we figure out that by adding a few more levels to Ling Death...that this is indeed the solution to our problem. (shorter duration DoTs, more dmg per tick, total dmg per cast about the same, just delivered more quickly, while using less raid boss mob buff slots).

    Just to make sure I'm getting through to you please consider this:

    Lingering Death levels 1-3= Increase the duration a DoT. Simple.

    Lingering Death levels 4-6= Reduce the duration of a DoT while delivering approximately the same total amount of dmg per cast.

    Proposed Lingering Death levels 7-?= Do exactly what current levels 4-6 have accomplished for us. This would further reduce the duration of a DoT while delivering dmg more quickly. I ask for an option to toggle these levels ON and OFF cuz i enjoy stacking on bosses.

    At the very least the proposed changes show potential to reduce overall buff slot usage. And the change also allows us to deliver more dmg more quickly in the group game.
  7. Venau Augur

    Thx for sharing Broh (g)?

    /clap?
  8. Beergoggles Elder

    That would only make sense if they learned from previous mistakes with each class update, but they seem to have progressively gotten worse.
  9. Fian Augur

    I don't play a necro so take this for what it is worth. Reduce necro dot duration (I wouldn't make it a toggle) with an increase in dot damage. Place some limits on what spells can stack like they did when they revamped druid/shaman. Reduced duration has 2 main benefits. One, better results in group game (necros are probably the worst dps class now in a group), and 2 since dots expire more quickly, necros can still focus on dot stacking a raid boss, but they will be recasting the same spells more frequently since they are expiring sooner. This would reduce the number of debuff slots taken on a raid target.
  10. nantalbus Elder

    There is one big issue all those saying to just reduce the duration and increase the dot damage are not taking into effect. Necros are not ment to be burst dps classes(ie the classes that can do uber dps in a short time frame at the begining of a fight) such as wiz/zerkers. We are ment to keep a higher avg dps for a longer time frame after the burst classes have started to dry out.

    There is a reason why swift dots do one amount of damage to non raid mobs and a lower amount to raid mobs. As well as why alot of necro aas don't effect them. When they 1st came out and just had the one big base damage combine with necro aas necros could burst as good as the burst classes. And that was just with 2 or 3 dots that only lasted 2 ticks and couldn't keep them up all the time(form having a recast longer then the dot lasted).

    Now imaging what happens if you say reduce us to say 8 or 9 dots each over 8k base damage that

    1. we can keep them all going full time
    2. are fully effected by all our dps aa.

    We be right back in that same boat all over again.

    This is why I think necro dots are taking so long. They gota find a way to put the dps of say 20 dots(the number most raiding necros stack on a mob) into say 9 dots. Without making it so that a necro with max aa and know what he/she is doing out bursting a burst class. WIthout messing with the long term damage we are ment to do.
  11. Venau Augur

    I'm not, in any way, promoting 8 or 9 DoTs with a base dmg of 8k each. You seem to be referring to what rumors of necro DoT consolidation will look like? I dunno.

    The increase in base dmg will be much less than this if the devs decide to add another level or two of the most recent Lingering Death AA's.
  12. Gialana Augur

    Looking at the in-game description, ranks 4-6 do not reduce the duration of dots.
    Ranks 4-6 increase the base damage of these spells by 6 seconds wroth of damage per rank.
    Where "these spells" refers to damage over time spells that have a minimum duration of 18 seconds.

    Do ranks 4-6 really decrease the duration of the dots? That would be quite bizarre to spend AAs to increase the duration of dots only to spend more AAs to undo what you've already spent AAs on.

    The in-game description is a little confusing, as is. It makes it sound like rank 6 will make your dots do triple their damage, unless they are calling the base damage of a dot the damage it does over all of its ticks, before modifiers. If that's the case, then a dot that does 15,000 dmg over 30 seconds would normally do 3,000 dmg per 6 seconds. With rank 6 of lingering death, the dot would do an additional 3 x 3,000 dmg, if it lasts for 30 seconds. So it would do 24,000 dmg in 30 seconds, or 4,800 dmg per 6 seconds. These numbers are before any damage modifiers. These numbers are also just speculation on my part as to how ranks 4-6 of lingering death might work. If the basics of my assumptions are correct, I don't know if the effects of ranks 1-3 would cause the hypothetical dot to spread out the 9,000 dmg over 48 seconds (4,125 dmg every 6 seconds), or if it keeps the 4,800 dmg per tick for 48 seconds (a total of 38,400 dmg), or if it has some other effect.
  13. nantalbus Elder


    Na not referring to that.

    Even without taking the dot consolidation into account. you don't seem to be adding in the lost damage form the dots we not casting anymore into your mix.

    Lingering death bout doubles the base damage of the dot. but if we lose some dots(the result of being able to cast fewer dots) then lingering death has to do more then double the base damage.
  14. Venau Augur

    Haha! Yes the in-game description is....shall we say....not exactly all inclusive as to what the most recent ranks accomplish. Just know this: Prior to ranks 4-6 going live several of our dots had a fully extended duration of as much as 3 server ticks longer as compared to what they are today.

    The stated goal was to deliver approximately the same amount of damage per cast over a shorter duration of time. And of course this was accomplished.
  15. Venau Augur

    I am, indeed, taking this concern into consideration. I was one to voice this very same concern before the most recent changes went live.

    As it turns out the average raid necro received a very slight boost to his/her dps.
  16. Venau Augur

    HAHAHA! Ok! Normally I dont reply to trolls. But the thought put into your spew is pretty awsum. We can agree to disagree on the power of the class.

    Just know this: The intent of the thread is to suggest something a lil less than uber complex the Devs could do to change the necro that would make lots of peeps happy.

    Think I'm kidding? Ask around to the players that know me. If I had my druthers I'd remove the Ling Death changes cuz i'm not too concerned with the group game and would rather focus on trying to stack many millions of DoTs on a raid mob:)
  17. Brohg Augur

    I think your disregard for additional power, and more particularly your enthusiasm for sacrificing that power in favor of exacerbating the intricate nuisance of maintaining the remaining power, is an exceptional position to hold and sets you far from the mainstream