Dear DBG: Upgrade Heroics to make them Relevant in Modern EQ

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by pm me elvish women, Sep 19, 2019.

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  1. Faelthos New Member

    While I would upgrade heroics (the next time the level cap increases - to 120) by 5 levels to 90, just to keep it within 30 of end-game, (and every time there is a level increase after that), I don't think we need ALL AA's auto-granted. Some would be cool. Other's I don't mind grinding for (in current content). I dislike going back to do what I see as obsolete missions with rewards that are non-relevant other than the AA.

    For an idea of what's non-relevant, pretty much anything I wouldn't wear at <insert level cap here>.

    I think AAs have experienced quite a bit of power creep that has made them necessary, instead of optional. They need to be rebalanced, in my opinion. You shouldn't NEED AAs to experience content, but those AAs should make the content easier, again - my opinion. The paradigm broke when it changed from level > AA to AA > level.
  2. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    So you're willing to run EoK, RoS, TBL, etc progression over and over ad infinitum for anyone returning? That's wonderful to hear, Whulfgar. Thanks for all your help!
    Whulfgar likes this.
  3. pm me elvish women Journeyman

    FFXIV, a MUCH more successful MMO has implemented both Level boosts and progression boosts, initially there was the same backlash by people who "worked hard and spent time doing the content." Then people who are capable of logical thinking realized that enabling new/returning players to start closer to where veteran players were (note, closer not exactly at the same spot) was not only GOOD for the game, but GOOD for the community.

    This whole "i earned it so you should have to" mentality is what is bad for the game, not adding catch-up mechanics (that you SHOULD have to pay for because they are items of convenience).

    MMOs are meant to be played at max level, I know it's hard for TLP/P99 players to grasp this concept. But this isn't 1999 anymore, this is a 20 year old game and one that is hurting for revenue. So if we can inject life into the game, why wouldn't we want that? We can argue exactly what to include in an updated heroic, but anyone arguing for a new player having to slug through tedious and trivial 6 year old content can go kick rocks.
    eqgamer and Faelthos like this.
  4. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I think if DBG made a new heroic they would ensure it was within 30 for a couple level increases. The Devs have said it takes quite a bit of work so I wouldn't expect them to be constantly updating the heroic.s. So if they waited until the next level increase I would expect it to be 95 or a 100. But will the game last that long? To make as much money from it as possible I would expect them to add it in as soon as possible IF they are planning to do it.
  5. Vumad Cape Wearer


    Except they already do that and I have said I support it.

    Auto grant AA. Unlocking old zones. They do all of these things already. AND *I support it*. Been pretty clear on that.

    So, your point is moot because you are arguing that you agree with me, which makes no sense what-so-ever.

    Read my whole post again and you will realize that I fully supported new/returning players bypassing *old* content so they are only 1 or 2 expansions behind. I argued against raising the price of heroics to include these items because they should be included for all character heroic or not. Yes, INCLUDED, in support of, given to them, etc and so forth.

    The crazy thing about this is that you accused me of not reading your posts. Weird.

    Simple fact is that heroics are not designed for returning players. They are clearly designed to get more money out of existing players and main changes. Adding additional costs to returning players to catch up is just another barrier to entry.

    While you may not have read my posts in other areas, I am a HUGE supporter of drawing new blood to the game. I hugely believe in ladder servers to group like minded populations together with the intention to make leveling much more appealing. So on and so forth.
    Duder likes this.
  6. Kraggo New Member

    So why play, make a lvl 110 maxxed, and do??? what??
    its in journey not the end.
    I just returned after away for 13 years.
    kraggo was made in 4/20/00 right after RoK came out, started in 99 with necro.
    the way games changed it worth it to lvl up.
    but say u been in game for 5 10 15 years, I think 1 heroic maxxed per account as long as ur proven long time player. would be cool.

    embrace the suck!

    kraggo Vilevenom
    110 iksar warrior xegony
    Duder likes this.
  7. Whulfgar Augur

    Have been doing so.. for as long as I can remember.. for anyone who puts the effort in their own toon I'd gladly up them.

    I am unlike most in this fashion. My guild just a while back got a rogue app who came back to game. He asked me why I never helped with his older content progression. I said because ya never asked. I'll help anyone most of the time .. thing is they have to ask. I am no mind reader.
    Duder likes this.
  8. Whulfgar Augur

    Have been doing so.. for as long as I can remember.. for anyone who puts the effort in their own toon I'd gladly up them.

    I am unlike most in this fashion. My guild just a while back got a rogue app who came back to game. He asked me why I never helped with his older content progression. I said because ya never asked. I'll help anyone most of the time .. thing is they have to ask. I am no mind reader.
  9. Whulfgar Augur

    Sorry no clue how that second post happened.
  10. Whulfgar Augur

    I had no clue FFXIV was older then Everquest. Here I thought EQ was thee oldest MMO still active with participating subs..

    I must sit on a throne of lies !
  11. Mazame Augur

    I disagree. If MMO are meant to be played at max level then why would they created a leveling system at all? After all RTS, FPS and other games don't have a level system.

    you say it hurting the game is hurting for revenue. Do you work in DBG accounting department? have you seen their books? how do you know they are hurting? If they were hurting for revenue do you think making heroic char change would fix the issue? Their would be more effective ways to address revenue than heroic char.

    If content is trivial then how would some one have to slug through it? BTW Trivial means "of little value or importance:" so it being of little value or importance would mean you don't need to do it.


    Example: EoTD. is used in EoK / RoS after that is is not needed. according to you You should only be playing at "Max level" this would be TBL, GMM as that is where your going to get the most current gear and max level of game play. So EoTD is Trivial and not needed.

    If your pushing for a new heroic and want to have all the "trivial" stuff granted then to me it sounds like that stuff is of importance and not trivial. Therefore if it is of value then it worth spending the time to go and get it.

    If you have a 110 char and geared and have the AA but never played it your skill level is going to not enable you to play the game at any level where you will enjoy it. Your going to die. My example I was helping some people last night and I was trying to play an SK. (I PL the SK and farmed the gear for him but I was dead every other pull.) Because I don't know how to play an SK I was more of a issue to my group then I was help. This was a group of friend and so they accepted it and tried to not make me feel bad but in the end I went back to another toon because I knew it was better for the group.

    New players to the game are in the same boat they don't know how to play so for them to make a heroic toon is not helping them it hurting them and those that group with them. In the end it make them leave the game sooner.

    Returning players may have a idea what they are doing but again they been away and things change so the leveling of a toon help get them back into the grove. Also if they are returning because of a friend that friend will help them with gear and progression and level so they will be up to par faster.

    So I guess i will go kick rock because I do feel that heroic toons hurt people more then they help.
    Duder and Suffer like this.
  12. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Ultima Online is still going last I checked.
  13. pm me elvish women Journeyman

    I'm pretty sure FFXIV has sold more copies and made more money in the last 4 years than EverQuest made in it's entire 2 decade lifetime. If your definition of success is to compare the age of the two games, you're just going to make yourself look stupid. In FFXIV's lifetime, it's sold 16 million units. I challenge you to compare that to EQ's sales, which are probably not even half of that.

    What a ridiculous and borderline shill statement to make. There are more people playing FFXIV on a single server than there are on almost all the live servers of EQ combined.
  14. Sancus Augur

    This is a poor argument. There are many games in this world more popular than EQ. There are many games in this world more popular than FFXIV. The 16 million number for FFXIV is registered users; WoW had over 100 million unique accounts back in 2014. Does that mean FFXIV should swap to 20 man raids, add DPS meters to the game, restrict characters to a single class, etc? Absolutely not. Those are differences that make FFXIV unique. The people who want those things play WoW already.

    I'm not at all opposed to upgrading heroics, and I appreciate that these systems have been implemented with success in other MMOs. I strongly disagree that such features existing or being accepted in other MMOs inherently justifies their existence in EQ. Part of EQ's value proposition, relative to other MMOs, is a strong sense of lasting accomplishment and character progression. I don't think higher level heroics significantly impedes that, but I also understand why others may feel differently.
    Brohg and Duder like this.
  15. Whulfgar Augur

    Why am I not surprised.. to hear a new person to the game say this.


    Member Since: Sep 15, 2019
    Messages: 18
  16. Whulfgar Augur

    With as I said participating subs still or is it just ran off some one elses server like P99 ?
  17. pm me elvish women Journeyman

    You... do realize that the forum accounts and your actual EQ account are not the same right? You can have a 20 year old account, but if you sign into the forums for the first time today, your account "Member Since" date will be today... I mean... how ignorant ARE you? This is almost comical for you to resort to ad hominem that isn't even accurate in any meaningful way. TRY AGAIN kid.


    Ah yes, the Old "Sense of Pride and Accomplishment" I feel when I 1 shot enemies in 6 year old progression to get AA's that every top raiding guild requires for their applicants. There's no "accomplishment" at all in slaughtering mindless and trivial content. It may have felt that way when you were doing it in era with friends and guildmates, but not anymore.
  18. Sancus Augur

    I'm in the #1 and #3 guilds to beat TBL; neither requires any hero AAs.
    Scornfire, Brohg and Whulfgar like this.
  19. Bigstomp Augur

    I don't think any raid guilds require those. Skill > Toon. But for performance, improving your toon magnifies whatever skill you have.
    Just go bang it out if it's mindless and trivial.
    It's obviously content you have not seen before.
    Enjoy the devs hard work designing it.
    You'll be done in no time if it's that trivial.
    Whulfgar and Duder like this.
  20. Whulfgar Augur

    So then as I said before.. that games older then everquest ?
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