Dbg, would this fix all the charm exploits?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Greensealilly, May 15, 2019.

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  1. krimmett Lorekeeper

    You are now dubbed the Hillary Clinton of these forums. You will say anything and bring up any scenario no matter how remote, just to proof a singular point. You complain about charm/gate, then people tell you work arounds. You now complain about bard charm, and then further complain about COTH/charm. My argument about taunting was hyperbole, notice the bottom of the post? You are bringing up ISOLATED situations to try an push your mentality on others. You want a charm overhaul because of one single mob in EQ, Quillmane. Let me introduce you to the world of audio triggers. There exists these things in EQ where when a script of text goes off, it plays a sound from your speaker. You can make the sound trigger off of things like allure, or bard charm when they are being casted. Both bard charm and ench charm are around 6 second cast times. You can preemptively cast your dispell so that it lands 1 second after the charm. Rather then come on the forums and cry havoc about abilities, I think you should quite frankly....wait for it..... GIT GUD.
  2. Yarteb Elder

    The "exploit" is using charm followed by gate or Call of the Hero to steal mobs away from a "dps race". The answer is to have gate, CotH, and similar spells and effects break the charm. The game issue is the charmed mob warping to the controller's new location. Other spell effects already break charm: invisibility, etc.
    Please make charms break on use of these spells.
  3. Hadesborne Augur

    And yet you don't realize that the bard or chanter sticks 4 dots/debuffs on the mob before charming it. You sir need to learn that other players know that you can dispell things and PREEMPTIVELY use counter measures as well. Stop being a child. You must understand that charm Gate/CoH/bard speed methods to WARP mobs to players and effectively eliminate the need to DPS race are unintended. If you don't, well , then you have shown your level of intelligence.
  4. Hadesborne Augur

    Also, it isn't ONE mob that this can be done to. It is basically any named in the game except HoS where they have flagged rares as uncharmeable.
  5. krimmett Lorekeeper

    Dude, how idiotic can you get? Why would a bard or chanter waste the time throwing dots on it? unless you are using cancel magic, dispells pull off more than 1 buff spot. If you try to stack quillmane with debuffs, he is dead before you even get the charm off. Do you see enchanters stacking debuffs on AC? No! You literally have zero argument here. Stop showing your a**, pull up your big boy pants, and stop posting here already. How many different ways do people have to show you, that its YOU who are clearly playing bad, and that there are so many ways to deal with this. The only thing that you cant deal with, is something I mentioned before, and that's Coth/charm. Suck it up already, and just practice playing better. At this point you are akin to someone asking friends if they think their spouse is cheating on them, in 10000 different ways. If you can't internally grasp this at this point, then Im sorry, you're a lost cause.
  6. Wimlin New Member

    Charmgate is the only defense enchanters have if someone tries to steal a camp from them. If they are going to nerf this then manaburn and harm touch and every other killsteal ability other classes get should not work on named. Just sayin. Those abilities are just as griefing as charmgate. The only time I've ever used it is when someone else tries to steal a camp that I already had.
    code-zero likes this.
  7. Hadesborne Augur

    I am going to try and spell this out to you as if you were a child and needs tutoring. It doesn't matter WHEN the bard charms the mob, he stacks on 4 dots/debuffs in 12 seconds. Two songs can load 4 slots on the mob, then when the mob is at 20% the charm lands and he runs with it. You can try to dispel his 4 debuffs/dots while quillmane is running and then warps to the bard seconds later. IF YOU WERE A GOOD PLAYER, you would know that this simply isn't possible. Get some experience with the game and understand what CAN be done before you come on the forums and spout nonsense! Chanters land tash and a dot right off the bat then they hit their charm and gate, again making your "pumice stone" method of defense futile. Because eventually the chanter will get his charm and gate off. And what defense do you have against charm/COTH? or Charm/Res?

    You simply lack the imagination that these skilled players have. Maybe it is YOU that needs to "GET GUD". Stop assuming it is I, who have played this game at a very high skill for a very long time, that is the problem here. You are blind to the issue of the broken mechanic and how it came about. You lack experience dealing with SMART players that have employed it in the past and currently. Stop showing the REST OF US that you simply are biased and utilize these methods as a method of greifing others or are just plain slow, and cannot grasp simple concepts.
  8. Lisfin Journeyman

    So why don't you cast dispel 3x times during this 12 seconds and keep the mob unbuffed for when the charm lands?

    Chanter casts tash, takes 2-3 seconds including 1 sec global cooldown, chanter casts dot, another 4-5 seconds, chanter casts charm, another 6 seconds, chanter casts gate, another 5 seconds.
    What are you doing during these 20 seconds? You could of casted dispel 4-5 times as he is casting all them spells. Maybe try doing something instead of alt tabbing out and posting on the forums...

    Also tash is a poison counter, its not effected by dispel, dispel will skip this debuff when dispelling the mob, it gives charm no protection from dispells.

    But keep repeating the same ole crap and make up new stuff to try and make it seem like there is no way to prevent this...so far you are only proving our point, just dispel the charm dude, its not that hard and you have plenty of warning.
  9. krimmett Lorekeeper

    1.) If you cant nuke 1200 hps in 16 seconds, you have found your issue.
    2.) if you cant keep a mob dispelled over 16 seconds, you have found another issue.
    3.) A bard is not going to mindlessly take off and not be close to melee range in case you do manage to dispel charm, they need to be in range to re-charm.
    4.) Tash is not dispellable, and charm is a 6 second cast. Why would any enchanter waste time casting any other spell over charm in a charm gate scenario for quillmane. The mob has 1200 hps and a single mage/wizzy nuke does 75% of its hp in 1 cast.

    5.) I have stated many times that a good Coth/charm is impossible to stop, unless you land your dispell perfectly with audio triggers.
    6.) I have played an enchanter for a very long time, and have played a bard. I know what they are capable of, and what they can do. You are literally losing your mind over a single mob in this game. Quillmane is not that important.
    7. I question your claim of playing at a high level when you don't even know how to use audio triggers.
    8.) Who exactly is "The rest of us", as far as I can tell people share in my rather low opinion of you.

    There's 8 things I hate about you.
  10. Hadesborne Augur

    So, If I am a warrior and I am fighting this named and my weapon sticks a dot on the mob due to a proc, I also have bellow on, then the chanter sticks a tash on. I am tanking so I start to click my pumice stone, whoops interrupted, try again. (note warriors have no channeling skill). I start again and by this time a dot has landed (slot 3). I click again and the dispell does nothing due casting level dispell issues. So I click again and as I manage to get my dispell off his charm has landed in slot 4 and I dispell my own dot in slot 1. He now has the mob and starts his gate. I need to then successfully land THREE dispell clicks in order to get his charm off before his gate finishes.

    Lets say I get the charm off the mob and the chanter cancels his gate. So we start over, eventually because of spell casting levels and the effectiveness of the dispell, he will eventually get another shot at it with even more debuffs on the mob. Tash isn't the only debuff there is btw. There are PLENTY of fast cast spells in an enchanter's arsenal. Meanwhile the mob isn't being damaged by anyone because we are both playing spells games. How many clicks do you think I am going to need to actually have the dispell work and remove anything, as well as get other dots off and then the charm AND keep it off? You don't seem to understand the mechanics of this game. As a melee character, I simply am not going to win this arms race with an experienced enchanter. To argue otherwise is laugable.

    PLEASE stop showing how little you know about this game. Also, your SOLUTION solves nothing when you have a chanter charming and a mage queing up their CoTH so it lands a split second later, or when their cleric clicks res on their corpse they have pre-made and the res lands a split second later. Now, if a chanter wants to charm a monster and bring it over to out DPS me then FINE. I AM TOTALLY FINE WITH THAT. When the chanter wants to shortcut this by exploiting, THAT is where I have issue.

    PS. Your solution does nothing to solve the bard speed charm warping issue as well. They can stack 4 debuffs/dots in 2 songs. When charm lands they AND the mob BOLTS. Now I have to catch the mob, and get my dispells off before the mob runs out of range. I have about 8 to 10 seconds to get these dispells off while running to catch up before the mob WARPS to the bard and the fight is over. You obviously have not thought this through.
  11. krimmett Lorekeeper


    Your first scenario is dumb, as a warrior any class could simply KS you. I wouldn't even waste a charm as a chanter, I could just use my crappy nukes and win the dps race. You are so caught up in trying to find the one isolated situation that proves your point, that you don't understand how ludicrous you sound. I have no idea why you are so fixated on quillmane. Its funny that you are accusing me of having no game knowledge when you didnt know tash wasnt dispellable, thought chanters hide charm behind debuffs for a 1200 hp mob, no idea why you brought bellow up because its not dispellable either, and somehow are failing to mention that pumice stone casts nullify magic which strips 2 buff slots with a 3 second cast (the same as the bard dots you re pointing out). Of course none of this matters in your scenario because you're a freaking warrior trying to solo a named like an idiot.
  12. Hadesborne Augur

    1)1200 nuke? What class are you assuming that everyone is playing?

    2) Again, what class are you assuming everyone is playing. 16 seconds worth of pumice stone clicking vs an experienced spell caster. When pumice stones may not actually dispell anything.

    3)bards land their debuffs and then charm and then they are GONE. If the mob doesnt follow because charm is lost, they just rinse repeat.

    4)They land the tash because it makes it much easier for their charm to stick so they wont worry about resists. With no resists, they can dump their dots and charm as they see fit. They may just be competing with a SK, war, pal, ranger, rogue, monk that is clicking pumice stones because they are the fastest dispell avail to them. The chanter/bard/necro can just keep it up as they see fit untill they win this spell battle. And they WILL win.

    5) Correct.

    6)It is every single rare in the game that this can be done to using one of 4 methods. Except HS named and raid mobs.

    7)I use audio triggers fine. REQUIRING audio triggers so a player will not EXPLOIT the game to my detriment seems a bit far fetched.

    8)The "Rest of Us" is apparently everyone in three different threads that have posted otheriwse EXCEPT you, Lisfin and a couple uneducated people that think charm+ gate is a defensive mechanism and their only way to DPS down mobs.

    This guy.

    Also, FYI in the past I have played a high level necro since march of '99. I may have taken a few breaks during that time but the game hasn't changed enough for me to understand that you have no experience with this situation. And if you expect everyone to have their own pocket mage/wizzie to DPS down stuff, then you have shown that you again are incapable of seeing beyound your own box group (nose). I also have high level alts: Warrior, Chanter, Bard, SK, Druid, and Cleric. I understand the game just fine. I understand it's weaknesses and THESE areas are the ones that being exploited .

    BUT I will accept your 5th point (the one thing you said that was correct). I will also use this to show you that even with your fixes, it can still be exploited this way AND HAS on phinny as well as on live.

    After all this, I have to ask you to be honest and answer one question: Do you think that the warping of charmed mobs to players is an unintended side effect of pathing issue fixes?
  13. Hadesborne Augur

    You have finally shown what kind of person you are. YOU are the one that is the troll and is defending methods for trolling. Hey how about this, stop being a and think about how your actions in game will be preceived. WOW
  14. krimmett Lorekeeper

    1. Nuke is a figurative expression, I would expect someone who has played since 99' on high level classes to know that one. It means to burn xxx amount of damage quickly.

    2. These lists are getting stupid to make because you rolled a melee in an era where melee is trash (except monks) and expect special treatment.
    3. Literally all of the issues you have incessantly whined about on the forums normalize in OoW, its just that you live in groundhog day where TLP's go classic ----> PoP... reroll.... Classic ----> PoP... reroll so you never get there.
    4. This has been a thing since classic wow, and having played since then you should have already known it was an issue.
    5. I have no idea what to tell you if you want to play melee and refuse to box another character for support ....whisper....the bard will always beat you 1v1 as a melee....
    6. Im not sure what point you are trying to make with the tash, enchanters 95% of the time will just tash + charm + gate unless its a low hp mob and then tash isnt even casted. Theres no point to dot a low hp mob to hide charm. Its wasted time casting.
    7. its not every single rare in the game, its only Lb cons. Let a bard charm a mob thats DB to him and you can just dispell and watch it eat him alive.
    8. Nobody is requiring you to use audio triggers, but if you want to combat charm's its almost a must.
    9. Most of the people calling for a charm nerf are melee. You made your bed rolling a non monk melee in classic, dont cry about having to lay in it.
    10. I never said anything about charm/gate being a defensive measure because its not. Its an offensive measure. Everything is a dps race, and if I can move the mob to where you cant hit it, then i win. Its no different then someone dispelling a chanter pet so they can KS them.

    This isnt a SOE run company anymore dude. This is dee bee effing G. Play by the current TOS or quit. Its that simple. Other players don't care about your issues, and DBG certainly doesnt. Only you, your parents, and guildies do. So sit back enjoy what semblance of EQ still exists, and roll a box for support if it really means that much to you. I am finished replying to you though, I've turned the horse into glue at this point.
  15. Hadesborne Augur

    It hasn't been around since classic, IF you HAD PLAYED back then, than you would know this.
  16. Hadesborne Augur

    All these wonderful statements. It took us a while to finally get here where you admit the kind of player/person you are. Now we can discount your arguments as biased towards player greifing. Well done.
    It is, you just can't see it.
    Thats what we want to do, but charming classes keep EXPLOITING to bypass the ToS.
  17. Lisfin Journeyman

    Its not a exploit dude...They purposely changed it to warp the pet to the owner if they get to far away. Lets read what a "exploit" is in video games.




    In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.



    How can it be a exploit if they designed it this way on purpose...Just because you don't like the game mechanic, does not mean its a exploit.

    Every example you give is just looking for the one in a million example that might happen. Do you just change the game because a very small percentage of players(less than .1% I would bet) might use a tactic that is too hard for some players to counter?

    In the examples you have given any caster could of just nuked the mob and took it from you without having to
    A. be bound in the zone with the named mob,
    B. Find the mob you are killing, cant KS you if you are not killing the mob,
    C. Cast a 6 second Charm on the mob you are killing,
    D. Cast a 5 second gate spell, and gate to a area away from you
    E. Break charm
    F. Kill mob to steal kill.

    Or they could just nuke it once or twice in the same amount of time and secure the kill from you. It sounds like you would have problems with any casters, and charm/gate isn't the problem.

    Be honest now, how many times have YOU (not your friend/guildy/grandma) had a mob secured(below 50%) and had a chanter charm/gate it from you?

    If the true answer is less than 3, what are you even complaining about...
    code-zero likes this.
  18. Lisfin Journeyman

    I think you are forgetting how you encouraged DPS racing. It was FINE and fair you said...

    And now you are trying to spin DPS races as if its not fair, because you need to have a pocket wiz or mage... Like I said before, as a cleric main, DPS races are not fair, you are expecting me to have a DPS box to secure my kills.

    Well guess what, seems you need one also, welcome to the "fair DPS" race you were encouraging earlier...

    But please keep making up things to try and justify your position. we can clearly see you have no idea what you are talking about, and will flip flop on anything you say and make up rare examples to try to make it seem like it has zero ways to stop it.

    Just stop dude...
  19. Accipiter Old Timer


    LOL, and I thought it was you we all have a low opinion of.
  20. Hadesborne Augur

    Did you play on Phinny? Because through Kunark guilds were running all their toons into frontier mnts to spawn picks because there was a team of chanter/mage that were charm/COTHing the warlord out from under people's noses in the main pick on server up and on respawn. You could wait the 3 days for repop but they would just show up and charm/COTH your warlord. There was nothing you could do to combat this as a single or group of people EXCEPT actually bring 40+ people there at another time to spawn a pick. This happened every 3 days for over 3 months. This also happened multiple times during Luclin on VT key piece mobs. Now, on this server I have personally had different bards swipe Quillmane 3 times. I also have had the AC swiped using this method 2 times. So yeah, it happens. The higher value the target, the more it will happen.

    I have never said DPS racing isn't fair because DPS racing doesn't work vs charm/coth. No wizard in your group is going to stop this. If people want to roll up and kill a mob with a full group vs one lowly player, then that is fair. I could just go get a group. But requiring to run a wizard because I may have some other single player EXPLOIT a pathing mechanic, now that is ridiculous. And it IS an exploit.

    The game devs never meant for the fix to allow PERMANENT character pets to warp to their masters to be used as a greifing method by chanters to charm mobs that other's are fighting and gate/coth/res them away. You obviously weren't around when these fixes went in.
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