DBG has suspended Overrated guild members for not complying with a player-made rotation

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Voide, Sep 4, 2015.

  1. Croak Augur


    No, because the "mediation" would have still failed, and Faceless would have still used that as an excuse to press the button.

    If you are arguing that he would have been more careful with a member of Modest Man, then that would show unfair treatment, gross negligence & dereliction of duty.

    The same petition that I have seen written by Yargmoth would have been sent - no one has seen the others so we can only base this on the 1 petition.

    The rotation council have the same itchy trigger finger towards non-alliance players as Faceless had towards Modest Man, and they now know petition works, and the full effect, but still don't use it as last resort. It really is almost like that have an aquired taste for it.
  2. Kattahn Elder


    Croak, correct me if im wrong, because you're apparently an expert on like, literally everything, but this is my take on what has happened:

    Several members of this guild were up in Sky, including its leadership. A nonbiased 3rd party was contacted to get in touch with them and mediate the situation. The third party was then immediately told by the people up there that they were aware of the rotation, and were knowingly choosing to not follow it. At this point, mediation ended and the petition was pushed through to the GMs, who then took account action only on the offending members of the guild that were in sky at the time of the offense.

    If all of that is true, then no, you are 100% incorrect that MM suspensions still would have gone through. The mediator would've been called, he would have contacted snubz, snubz would have told him to piss off, he may or may not have moved to contact an MM officer since none were present at the time(i believe, from what ive read, that Overrated officers were present on this offense?), and then the petition would've been sent in, and, following the line of events that happened here, snubz would've been suspended and the rest of the guild would have been fine.
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  3. Lighteningrod Augur

    They should bring that show back!
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  4. Croak Augur

    In 75%-100% of mediation attempts with non-rotation members in Sky that I am aware of mediation has failed. Those are just what has been mentioned in the private discussion about mediation issues & Sky. There was some incident with Sad Dragons (sp?) like almost 2 weeks ago that they left, but I am not sure if that was really due to mediation, otherwise it would be 100% fail.

    Since all the private discussions on how mediation can be improved, there is a 100% failure rate and 100% suspension rate.
    Even Roshen commented on how abysmal things are, and this was before this incident.

    I am not aware of the rotation guilds currently "working together" with anyone not applying to be rotation "guilds" in their own right.

    Say someone from modest man tried to mediate with Zhutuak, do you think his previous encounters with Modest Man's leader might influence his willingness to listen?

    July 28th in the main rotation thread
    The other mediators... MiM who he had outstanding issues with over a previous Sky incident, and Faceless, who I think almost no one really trusts anymore.

    I really hope when Zhu gets back it turns out he has logs he is willing to share.

    Just because my opinions differ from your own does not mean I am spamming. Accusing someone of spamming however might be looked on as a forum violation.
  5. Progress Augur

    I want to thank the OP for breaking the rules of engagement thus allowing DBG to suspend the violators. This event will most likely stop other groups from doing the same thing.
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  6. squidgod Augur


    So you did this during MiM's day too? Remember seeing you guys up there on 1/2 on AD's day as well.
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  7. Kattahn Elder

    Mediations are failing because the offending parties are taking the attitude of "get bent, i dont recognize your rotation"

    You cant blame the mediators when the offending parties refuse to mediate.

    Again, we have shown on literally 100% of the situations that have popped up that we are willing to work with everyone to get them time in sky that doesn't disrupt the rotation, so that everyone wins. That is called "compromise". That is, whatever dumb comment you made earlier, the mediators "bringing something to the table".

    So what we have is a 100% success rate when the people who want in sky reasonably contact the rotation guilds and work something out, and a 100% fail rate when people go into the zone, make no effort to contact anyone in the rotation, start killing stuff, and then say "we know there is a rotation and we choose not to follow it".

    That makes it pretty clear to me where the problem lies.
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  8. Croak Augur

    I have access to more information than you do, because maybe I read more & that I was invited into private discussion to represent in some way non-rotation members.
    If that makes you feel I am an expert, then so be it, but a fair amount of what is being said in there does creep out when people who should know more from their leaders are shown to be ill informed.

    Maybe check out this post by Gulfein ( MM Leader )
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...n-updated-8-15-15.225388/page-64#post-3320184

    Yargmoth claims he didn't even know there was a chance of suspensions
    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...ty-breaks-rotation.226122/page-5#post-3314899


    Roshen from the private thread about the Snubs incident

  9. Zhutuak Augur


    This is the crux of the problem, no one really understands what they are doing, they just do it.

    How can anyone reasonably believe that other rotation guild members are actually unbiased third parties. It is the 9/11 commission all over again but this will escape most of you in more ways than one.

    It was a three day suspension if it was not obvious. What I fell Croak was trying to point out to you folks with the discrimination angle is that you can always game the system, which is what you folks are continuing to do under the guise of more content for all.

    Except you are excluding the most fundamental aspect of experiencing content, the group. It is the down is up and wrong is right that is prevalent every day in our real world reflected in our gaming choices of how we handle resources in game.

    In the beginning, there was need before greed. Now it is twisted so that only a few benefit after having been the ones that followed the best because for some reason, they can not tell right from wrong or apparently the difference of partial and impartial.

    Sorry Croak, I am a gamer not a log taker. Now if it something that the game does automatically, then I should have whatever info is required.

    Please find someone other than those in your rotation that actually thinks rotation guilds mediating between other rotation guilds and non guilded people is in good faith AND impartial.

    There is no compromise in requiring people to be guilded and to have to ask other players to enjoy open content that can actually be downed by one group. I am not asking your permission because I think you are over rotating AND that your reasoning and how you are going about it actually make very little sense.

    When Sky is open and you or your guild mates need keys, they should log in and proceed to wait for the next Sirran spawn and or loot necessary keys by working with the rest of the server.

    No one is trying to take your rotation of things that only those in the rotation can kill.

    Apples, meet oranges.

    Those of your success rate I would bet every last cent I have intend on joining your rotation. I am thinking you "fail" rate do not intend on joining your rotation for various reasons.

    DBG/player base can not seem to stop applying the wrong solutions.

    If any of you top end guilds had any stones, you would follow a rotation that leave yourself vulnerable to those lower on the food chain while abstaining from bottom feeding of any sort. You would get the ffa you desire, but it would involve only your rotation as open ffa to the rest of the server. You have to openly defend being the top guild on the server at all times, if the rest of the server so chooses. Or you can continue to rotate, your choice meaning not everyone is forced into the same box as to how the experience content.

    So many possibilities to solve all these issues but other ideas are not even being considered at all and suspensions are being implemented in bad faith.
  10. squidgod Augur

    I'm not sure Croak even plays anymore. I only ever see him in the forums.
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  11. Meatball Elder

    After reading Croak pleading his case, all that comes to mind is:



    I pay for my Costco membership, but it doesn't mean that once I'm inside I get to push my way to the front of every line (though a LOT of other people seem to think so and do just that, as is the case here).

    Louis CK in one of his bits discusses how he tries to avoid doing things that, if everyone decided to do the same thing, society wouldn't work.

    Something to think about.
    lockjaws likes this.
  12. Zhutuak Augur

    Can you answer my question, not being the log taker, does the game do it automatically?
  13. squidgod Augur

    /log

    persists through logins, so do it once and you log forever.
  14. Croak Augur

    All you have to do is /log on

    It can fill up your HD a lot if you are swarming on a high level SK, but I only have 200MB of logs from my normal activities on Lockjaw so far.
    Then you can use Gamparse to search for all kinds of interesting stuff, see how you are improving with DPS, tanking etc. It can also be set to backup and compress your logs say every 100k - making it work for the low dps numbers in classic does require some reconfiguration.
    Gamparse only reads log files

    Good to see you back, now I can go back to just selling idols to non-rotation members rather than a blanket "not going to profit from stupidity" stance.
  15. Machen New Member


    Doing it twice when both times the person/people involved refused to even consider leaving the zone and respecting the rotation hardly qualifies as an acquired taste or an itchy trigger finger. It is working as intended, and if it weren't then Roshen would be insisting on further adjustments to the process.
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  16. Zhutuak Augur

    I have a small ssd, no real room for logs nor the desire to chase stats. I would not have any logs or screen shots to prove any of my claims. You are right, I have had issues w/ guild leaders and members from large guilds in the past even so much as being told dps ruled the server.

    That of course was sometime ago and stances do change, I find the commonality is it is always what benefits them the most at the time.

    Much respect to you Croak for your stance and actively doing something about all this non sense. Me, I am not sure it is worth it. I am at the point where the only real reason I see to come back to would be what we talked about in game. A real movement has to start somewhere, why not here?
  17. taliefer Augur

    and right there is your problem. when someone is breaking the rotation, its not a negotiating situation.
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  18. Imdead Augur

    Croak - how should this situation have been mediated from your perspective. You obviously think it was mediated wrong but do you believe that overrated should have been allowed to continue doing whatever they wanted. I'm sure changes are coming but until then it's detrimental to all involved to try and have someone circumvent the rules that are working for most of the server at this time

    Ignorance of the law/rules does not grant you immunity to them. This is universally accepted.

    The only truly impartial authority on these servers DBG and even then you can argue they are biased to whatever keeps the most subscribers happy. As it stands the impartial authority of DBG insisted on a rotation for the health of the servers and has put enforcement behind it. I'm sure there are plenty of things Roshan would love to see but until DBG officially puts any sort of enforcement or mandates around it then they're just wishes. I'm sure Roshan wants options for unguided players just like how DBG wants FFA to preserve the spirit of competition and Holly has said casuals shouldnt expect to see/kill dragons. DBG has said a lot of things and to try and wield those words against others at this time is unhelpful beyond the words that they are actually willing to put action behind.

    DBG learned from its mistake of mass suspending MM and appears to now only be banning accounts involved in the infractions which I'm sure is a relief to everyone. I think the MM situation played out identical to this other than it was a rogue member of MM and not active leadership. That rogue member has shown he would not comply with mediation, CS would have still been petitioned and DBG would have still nuked the player and/or guild. The only saving grace might have been MM's ability to boot the offending player to stop the cascading suspensions however that does not negate DBG's over the top CS solution at the time.

    TLDR: Stop feeding the unguilded trolls. Obviously unguilded players choose not to participate in the rotation and aren't subject to punishments of said rotation. If however you don't like what they're doing since you are a part of the rotation you must mediate with them and suspensions should never be a result of good or failed mediation.
    Simone likes this.
  19. Zhutuak Augur

    We are not party t the rotation nor do we care to be. This is why you have people forcing the issue. Many many small guilds revolve around a single group of core players. Some of these small guilds can contest this content. If they have to join your rotation to see the content, eventually you will have 100 guilds rotated every 24hr on content that respawns in 6hr.

    Do you not see the even greater absurdity we are headed towards?
  20. squidgod Augur

    Then you don't kill in Sky until the rotation guilds change the rules or DBG drops the rotation requirement.
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