DBG: Easy fix to stop boxing violations

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Fell, Jun 13, 2021.

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  1. Gnothappening Augur

    Remember when they increased the specs with Luclin models and people with older cards would get the models minus clothes?
    Niskin and Bardy McFly like this.
  2. code-zero Augur

    It gets really difficult to play more than two characters in later expansions and if you use strictly in game tools to do it you'll have multiple hot bars with most of your socials in use. It's a lot of fun and there's exactly zero training wheels for the process
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  3. Fell Elder

    Err, no it hasn't. Both /follow and /assist were added months after the game went live. Once they were in, the first auto-follow healerbots and dpsbots made their appearance. And, of course, once the full macro system went live, full-group boxes became common.
  4. Machen New Member


    And you could do that, in 1999, on two characters easily enough.

    I had a friend that 3 boxed in 1999 with three computers. You didn't need any training wheels or any software assistance to do it.
  5. Machen New Member


    Wrong again. I was boxing a healerbot before follow was a thing.
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  6. Fell Elder

    And I have a pet monkey that typed the entire script of Hamlet from memory. ;)

    You're the same chap who said the /follow command was in EQ in 1999, right? After that boner, why should we believe anything else you say?
  7. Accipiter Old Timer


    Wrong.
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  8. Accipiter Old Timer


    You've got the troll turned up to 11.
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  9. Bardy McFly Augur

    He's just going to get his own thread locked. Let him continue to inflict pain on himself.
    Accipiter likes this.
  10. Machen New Member


    Nope, wasn't me.
  11. Niskin Clockwork Arguer


    Months? Really? So the game has been out 22 years and you think my statement that the command has been in the game forever isn't true? You're grasping here. I couldn't find a patch note saying they added it, but they fixed a bug with it in 2001. Without a patch note I'd say it probably was in, and you just don't know what you are talking about. Same with /assist, bug fix in 2001, no announcement of it being added before that.

    Boxing is more of a thing in the last 11 years than the previous 11. As some have noted, it was done, but not widely.
  12. oldkracow Augur

    How am I going to buy two level 60's after kunark comes out if you fix the boxers.
    I need their cheap labor. :D
  13. Fell Elder

    Had you played during that period, you'd know when both were added. Neither was in the game during beta, nor at launch. The nice thing about facts are that they remain true, whether or not you believe them.
  14. Niskin Clockwork Arguer


    So I went to the trouble of looking through patch notes, searching for the information, and found that at worst, /follow and /assist were in before April 2021, long enough to have bugs reported and fixed. That's 20 years in a 22 year old game. Meanwhile you present no evidence, and accuse me of not even playing back then.

    Honestly, I expect better from the trolls I engage with. You deflect, you ignore the points you can't refute. You posit terrible solutions to problems that aren't actually problems. If you want me to believe you, find the patch note, find its addition being discussed somewhere. Find anything that would be worth more than your word, which is the only thing in this thread more worthless than your suggestions.

    Not that any of it matters, /follow and /assist are important tools for all players, regardless of whether they are 20/21/22 years old. They aren't getting removed, have a nice day.
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  15. jack of all trades Elder


    So.. Instead of attacking him for "not playing in that period", if you're so knowledgeable, provide some sources. Provide some dates. Provide ANYTHING other than a load of crock. You keep talking about these training wheels. As several of us have mentioned, boxing has been going on since the beginning. People DID click target stuff, because either Assist wasn't in the game or they didn't know the command. That, I wouldn't know, since I was a snot nosed little kid. What I do know, is that you can't provide a single shred of evidence for a single claim that you've made.

    Show us a screenshot of all these "boxer haters". Show us a link where Assist or follow was introduced. Prove something to us that ANYTHING you have said is true.

    Don't worry, we'll all wait a week while you create multiple discord usernames to complain with, or EQ accounts to send tells and crop using MS Paint. Even those against boxing are looking at you as though you were Sloth from the Goonies.
  16. jiri_ Augur

    Also, to the extent that removing /follow or /assist would do anything, it'd be to screw with fairly normal players. The people who'd get hurt by a /follow removal would be players who need to be picked up or guided to an unfamiliar camp location - less experienced players. You'd probably get some people boxing a shaman for their monk or a cleric for their shadowknight; maybe that's worth it to you. Mostly what it'd mean is that there'd be more people playing classes with high solo potential and fewer people playing tanks and clerics.

    The people who'd get hurt by removing /assist are raiders. Literally only raiders. /assist barely matters in most camps and with most groups. And since we have the Target's Target window setting up a hotkey that duplicates /assist for group content would be trivial.

    And anyway, none of this matters because the people boxing multiple characters can either use software to link computers together to duplicate keypresses or are using the forbidden program to automate all of it anyway.
  17. Fell Elder

    I appreciate that you wish to drag the conversation down into the weeds, however, it doesn't matter whether or not you believe these commands were added after the game went live, because (a), anyone who played through the period already knows this, and (b), it's a minor point anyway. Nor is pointing out that a person's information about early EQ is wrong "attacking him for not playing then."

    I'm not going to argue that changes to the game have fed the rise in boxing for the same reason I won't argue that the earth isn't flat. It isn't simply the addition of macro commands, nor the new client interface, but also mechanics changes that made the game easier for all players -- not simply boxers -- and thus require less attention be paid to each toon. The same people flaunting pics of their owning six numpads are trying to deny that hotkeys and macros don't help them to box? Ludicrous. Try six-boxing a group when every single mob or player you target must be located and clicked on upon the screen, when every spell you case, when every ability to activate requires a mouseclick on the appropriate areas of the screen. And you've all spent the last ten pages whining that you box simply because playing a single toon is too boring. Trying to deny the fact now is rather pointless.

    Saying boxing has been in the game since the beginning is like saying Neolithic man built skyscrapers when he piled three rocks atop each other. In the earliest days of EQ, there was no boxing. None. Three, four months after the game went live, you began seeing the random buffbot or a healbot, but they operated primarily between kills: there was essentially zero simultaneous coordination. The very term "box" itself wasn't coined until SOE enabled client windowed mode, and originally referred only to multiple instances on a single PC. And yes, I realize it means something different today.

    BTW -- I got curious when you said you couldn't find /follow and /assist being introduced in the patch notes history, so I looked myself. Those online archives are extremely spotty in their early history. Allakhazam, for instance, is missing all patches between April and September 1999 (a dozen at least), and even their so-called "patch message" from Apr 6, 199 concludes with the following: "There's a whole bunch of other stuff that has been fixed as well and is listed in the patch message". In other words, they archived only the header, not the full patch notes (which, back then, usually ran many pages per patch).
  18. Fell Elder

    You've missed the point entirely. When /assist was added, there were no hotheys, no "target of target's window", nor any way whatsoever to target a mob -- or anything at all -- without locating it and clicking it upon the screen.

    I wonder if you people are even hearing the circular argument you're making. You honestly don't see the conflict between the statements that "boxing isn't a problem because we don't use third-party software to box", and "you can't stop us boxing, because any changes you make won't affect third-party software"?

    Furthermore, your point itself is flawed. Keypress duplication software isn't going to help you if you can't target the right mob or cast the right spell with a keypress, now is it? Mouseclick duplication might work for spells, but it isn't going to get around a dynamic targeting requirement.
  19. Bardy McFly Augur

    Go fire up a custom server if you want /follow and /assist removed from the game, along with the requirement to use mouse actions instead of keyboard commands. Heck, I don't even think you could remove keyboard actions without heavy client mods. You are very much in the minority if you think much of anyone would agree with you on these changes. All you're doing is proving that EQ isn't the game you want to be playing anymore. Boxing aside, the changes you want are never going to happen.
  20. Ruhi Lorekeeper


    so just curious, changes were made 21 or so years ago to the game (based on your own data you've presented) that opened up "boxing" - and you still played it (or cared enough to be on the forums this long perhaps without ever passionately posting about it?) and you're jabbering on about something you dont like about the game that has existed in the game for 21 years?

    Trolly mcTroll - well done. 11 pages. might be a record.
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