Daybreak needs to allow VMs

Discussion in 'Player Support' started by JohnyDerp, May 10, 2017.

  1. JohnyDerp New Member

    There was never any legitimacy to the ban. Sony's VM ban is silly blanket attack that doesn't even stop hacking tools which are alive and doing just fine.

    The entire argument that a gaming company can't get to the OS is ridiculous. You can do the same virtualization on top of the OS instead of under it. You can virtualize and sandbox the hacking tools as needed. Daybreak can't claim that is has some divine right to poke around my OS just to play a video game anyway. They couldn't find a better way to rapidly target exploits at the time, so they banned VMs and sorted it out later. These days it's pointless because app virtualization is everywhere and that means you can hide an app from EQ and mostly from the OS, only allowing the minimal contact surfaces.. and that's the new way things are done to stay secure. Chrome shouldn't run in the same 'space' as EQ and so on.

    Anti hacking tools have to be based on events, patterns and character behavior, not attempts to poke around the OS and see what's running. That kind of stuff doesn't fly and doesn't work.

    The world is moving to streaming games and virtualization. I'm tired of being drug down by this games inability to modernize. There is just no legitimate reason to ban VMs. It was a stop gap solution. It's not as if they have a one instance per computer policy either, so it really makes no sense since it doesn't stop hacking tools and they don't care if one person plays 3+ characters.

    The only reason to ban VMs would be to limit a person from playing many instance of EQ, but that's something entirely allowed and generates lots of additional revenue with many people owning 2+ accounts. The VM ban doesn't stop hacking tools, that's just EQ lore. It wasn't true then and it's even less true now.

    All the VM ban does is lose Daybreak sales and force me to dual boot, which makes me want to quit the game that much more and take my 3-4 accounts and look for another game. Endless nerfs, half finished expansions, weak content, raids filled with ridiculous emotes. Am I playing an RPG or Dance Dance revolution? Who told the devs that running to little aura circles like an FPS whackamole was fun? I don't think it was their users and customers!

    EQ needs to start listening to it's users more because people are more tired of the game than ever. Instead of nerfing class for pretend game balance, how about focus on the 1990s UI, how about you improve the raid management tool like we've asked for 10+ years. Stop pretending your VM ban got rid of exploits. There are multiple companies selling subscription bot code and there isn't much any game can do about it.

    You could make a better anti bot system just by tracking player commands and movement. You don't need to ban VMs and you have no right or real ability to see what my OS and other apps are really up to. Cmon, you think scanning memory for running processes or something lame is going to work? These aren't viruses you got from your 56k modem.

    I'd like to tell you VMs would open the door for more customers, but that ship has probably sailed. Instead what it will do is help keep the customers you have as the market transitions away from Windows dominance more and more.

    Anyone with basic google skills can figure out EQ exploits are still alive and healthy. And a little more understanding of OS and virtualization makes it obvious that you can't really stop it through hardware profiles or simple process scans. You're VM ban is mostly just annoying legitimate customers. STOP THAT! Stop taking my money and wasting it on nerfs and policies that make no sense. MAKE CONTENT! Mobs, zones, more mobs, mobs linked to those mobs, fun camps to break and upgrade the UI to enhance gameplay. Really, that's all you ever had to do.. why can't you modernize the UI. You made EQ2 instead of just modernizing EQ1 and look where that got you... a big old server farm to pay for no doubt.

    Game balance has been out for years, so I don't get why you waste time on things people generally hate. Less nerfs, less emote bs, less running back and forth for quests and let us use VMs!

    It's just common sense!
    DruidCT likes this.
  2. Owch Journeyman

  3. HeatherPurrs Augur

    Just say, "No." to VM.
  4. mackal Augur

    EQ runs fine in WINE.
  5. Aghinem Augur

    This is not really a support issue; you should put these thoughts in Veterans Lounge as well thought out it is. I tend to agree about the whole VM ban being a bit ridiculous; but hey, its their rules - so gotta live with it. *shrug*
  6. phattoni Augur

    NO to vms.

    they have been banned so long that the population we would get from allowing them is not even noticeable, them people have moved on to other games etc.

    and not being able to afford windows is not a valid excuse, i literally play on a pen drive computer with windows 10, it cost 89$ canadian which would come out to like 50-60$ in the states, you pay more than that for a year sub to everquest.

    run windows or linux to use wine, or dont play, its that simple.
    Taee likes this.
  7. Scarcius New Member

    This is a stupid thread.. You don't even need to run a VM to launch multiple instances of eq on most servers. Only people that care about this are people that want to use their ez mode to farm on Agnarr.
  8. Smokezz Augur

    The VM ban was never about EQ anyway. It was Planetside 2.
  9. Bella222 Elder






    What is a VM anyway? It does sound like a hack. I am sure other players don't know what it is anyway so why would we want it. Sounds like something so you could play 6 accounts at once and keep the rest of us from valuable mobs.
  10. Bella222 Elder

    What is a VM anyway? It does sound like a hack. I am sure other players don't know what it is either so why would we want it. Sounds like something so you could play 6 free accounts at once and keep the rest of us from valuable mobs.
  11. HeatherPurrs Augur

    VM=Virtual Machine. What this does is load an entire other copy of the OS into memory as a completely separate machine from the one it's running on. What this does is allow you to monitor the communications from the nonVM machine and it's random access memory undetected by the provider, i.e. DB wouldn't even know you were looking at the machine's ram and internet connection as it would be being monitored by a completely different machine. Looking at a computer's RAM undetected is basically only possible via VM.

    VM are a great way to hack/cheat at online games.
  12. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    As far as the VM issue goes, I agree with the OP's assessment that banning VMs encourages terrible personal security and is in opposition to just about every trend in pc technology and safe computing. VM hosting software is included with Windows. Windows is a System Requirement for EQ, so banning VMs is similar to banning the Volume control or Notepad or Calculator (which all come with Windows).

    Separate but related: Failing to see the functional similarities between WINE and VMs is selective blindness. Allowing WINE and not allowing VMs is hypocrisy. WINE's entire purpose is to fool applications into believing that they are running in a Windows environment.

    While WINE isn't a VM, using WINE accomplishes the exact same thing and would seem to be in direct opposition to the spirit of DBG's ban on VMs.
  13. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    It's interesting that you only view this from DBG's standpoint. From a consumer's standpoint, using a VM for each of your applications ensures that none of your applications can mess with the other applications. Or access your personal data.

    Banning VMs ensures that DBG has total access to everything on your computer. It is similar to buying a board game that is packaged with a camera and allowing the game to record everything and everyone in your entire home and send it back to the manufacturer, even when you're not playing it.

    While you might think that goal of cracking down on cheaters (however that is defined today) is important, I doubt you think it is as important as protecting your family, your credit cards, and everything else that touches your computer.
  14. Jumbur Augur

    But didn't you agree to that when you clicked "yes" to the eula, when you installed EQ? :p
    NameAlreadyInUse likes this.
  15. Bella222 Elder

    You had to agree to Daybreak's Eula and every other gaming company makes you do the same thing. And some will ban you for many more things than EQ will.
  16. HeatherPurrs Augur

    I like the whole "DB wants to hack me." thing.
  17. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    There is no need to speculate about intent. Companies store and lose your information all the time. In fact, EQ/Sony have already failed at keeping your information safe, very publicly.

    Downplaying security best practices and calling them paranoia is...crazy.
  18. Khat_Nip Augur

    Conspiracy theory much? /smh
    Smokezz likes this.
  19. NameAlreadyInUse Augur

    Lol, I'm sorry for your confusion, but I don't think you can call it a conspiracy if it has already happened.

    But it's not just data theft/loss, but also standard software compatibility issues that arise over time. Have you ever had a Windows machine lose performance over time, eventually requiring a full re-install of Windows to restore it's original performance? Virtual Machines can eliminate that issue almost completely.

    I get why DBG issued the ban and I don't actually care. But I think it is a short term solution that will likely be made irrelevant by other technology changes (everything is heading towards virtualization, even regular Windows).

    Argue on!
  20. Jumbur Augur


    Actually, hacking you, would be totally "in-character" for Sony. :p
    NameAlreadyInUse likes this.

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