Daybreak - Communicate with your player base!

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lorolgon, Feb 6, 2022.

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  1. Lodestar Lorekeeper

    Daybreak: You are going to have to be more transparent with your community. You are starting to destroy the subscriber-base by issuing suspensions that appear to be inconsistent with past statements. Better clarify your stance. If you don't do this, you are shooting yourselves in the feet two-fold: Losing friends of friends (subscribers, cash inflow) due to inconsistency in your actions; and then creating the potential for a future scenario where you get DDOS'd by those more technically-savvy who are using a legitimate program (ISB, per your own statements), that want to "give it to the man". Extremely poor decision making from a business perspective. You are destroying the longevity of the game for everyone (through destruction of your own cash flow), by way of poor transparency with your player base. Get your act together.
    KurySweetbunns and Lorolgon like this.
  2. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Repeating things doesn't make it true. All he said was no specific program was banned because they don't look for a specific program, that its actions done to the client or the game that they look for. And M Q 2 does that, so it IS de facto banned in terms of if you are caught using it you get suspended.

    Playing semantics doesn't win you points, it makes you look complicit.

    Holly is the only one that ever mentioned in general terms, not quoting policy, her own opinion, about wanting to allow it in certain cases, during a discord chat, and shortly thereafter she no longer worked here, and yet people still quote that as if it is somehow gospel.

    As someone else said, if you know that if someone else knew you used it they would consider you a cheater, obviously its cheating.

    I will say, that playing off nights on a TLP server has shown me that there are a lot of nice, otherwise reasonable people, that truly believe they are "allowed" to use things like M Q 2, or are allowed on "some" servers (Rizlona), when they are severely mistaken. I've seen people, in guild chat, pretty much out themselves for using zone trackers (an SK knowing every named up, for example), and be blase about the whole thing because they really think its ok. Coming from Live from a guild that enforces membership bans over it, it was shocking.
    Szilent and Thancra like this.
  3. Cadira Augur


    If you use M Q 2, you are at risk of a suspension.

    That's it. Nothing else. No one is at risk for using anything else.

    If your "friends" who got suspended claim they don't use M Q 2, they are lying to you. (And you're probably blind to not realize they are using it, honestly.)

    If you're just "sitting in guild lobby and got suspended" that's probably cause you have M Q 2 doing your overseers for you or something like that.

    Uninstall M Q 2 and you will magically stop getting suspended. Guaranteed. It violates the EULA, you can read it at anytime, no need for a dev to do it for you.
  4. Lodestar Lorekeeper

    There are people getting suspended who are not using M.Q.2, player automation, or map programs. Daybreak needs to clarify its stance before it creates irreversible harm on its player base and the entire community. Clarify the programs that are legal. Simple.
    Fenthen likes this.
  5. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    I don't think anyone here is arguing that cheats should be allowed.
    The problem is that when everyone claims innocence, and DBG doesn't present any proof, then the rumors about false positives remain unchallenged and that makes people nervous.

    Another problem is that some people might be unaware that they were breaking any rules. That happens a lot when rules are not explicitly stated. Some people need it spelled out. They will learn nothing from a suspension unless they are giving more details.
    I think some of the suspended players truly believe they are false positives, because they are not given any information.
    Fenthen likes this.
  6. Speedy the bard New Member

    To the player who uses the same software to control all his accounts, and in their eyes, don't do anything different between the accounts, but yet only a few accounts get suspended, it appears random.

    I am sure it isn't random, but until there is some transparency, it will appear random.
    Kalvenie, Nennius and Jumbur like this.
  7. Ashigaru Augur

    Its a reasonable argument in principle... however, let me put it another way. Who would I choose to trust?
    - My fellow guildmates (who don't normally post here - hence they show as new members. You're welcome to pop over to AB and chat to us, and see they are real) who I've been guilded with for years and who's actions have demonstrated their character.
    - or DPG, who let's face it do ahem, occasionally make mistakes...

    Not the toughest of questions
    Who would you choose to trust? Your guildmates if some them get hit erroneously by the suspension wave, or DPG?
    tanith and Jumbur like this.
  8. Speedy the bard New Member

    Very True Jumbur. There is another thread on here where it is asked if task parking on alt to be able to do missions more often than the standard lockout is cheating. Someone wanted guidance and asked. That question was never really answered by DBG, I believe a Dev gave some non-answer which provided no guidance. So there was a question from a paying customer who wanted clarity, and obviously there is no need to hide the actual activity to prevent people from doing it, as there it is, described right there in the forum, and yet no clarity was given.

    So the "people know they are cheating and shouldn't have to ask" isn't necessarily true in all cases. If there is was a greyish area where they are starting to enforce, there is no harm in saying so. Let's just say that DBG decided that autofollow tools/ability used by third party software gives an unfair advantage (since EQ autofollow sucks both the big and small one) and is suspending because of that. Would it harm to tell everyone that? People would assume that it isn't much of a big deal and always had that ability with certain software so wouldn't consider it a problem. That's the issue. The unknown. Certain things taken for granted as not cheating by some players, but DBG does consider it as cheating but don't want to explicitly say that.
  9. Angahran Augur

    m-q-2 is 100% against the EULA since it directly manipulates the datastream between the client and the server.
    Svann2 and Thancra like this.
  10. Waring_McMarrin Augur

    There are more ways to cheat in EQ than the ways you listed
    Rexa and Yinla like this.
  11. Thancra Loladin

    I'm on AB and there's a good amount of people cheating that their guildies are completely blind of their actions. So no, that doesn't count as a proof at all... There's 0 mistake on these bans and a good amount of bad faith on these forums.
    Szilent, Schadenfreude and Raccoo like this.
  12. Lluianae New Member

    Thancra, with all due respect, I'll contest this notion. This is implying as if the posts made here from several are in bad faith, and again, I can vouch that they were not. There is legitimate concern here, and neither of us can be absolutely certain on whether there are mistakes or not. That would be a big assumption.

    I'd trust old AB players should remember how I was in dealing with cheaters back in my day both as a guild officer in Tide and as CC/CL, and even going to lengths to get worst offenders like a certain-GoD/OoW era 6 boxer dealt with.

    This is not to disparage that there are in fact people who will turn an ignorant eye to people blatantly cheating, but I also know of a recent case of someone found out doing so was in fact denied from participating in future. I think they still play, and that's on DBG for not dealing with egregious offenders. If anything that's at the heart of it. AB still has some very obvious people still online literally right now. How come they were missed, despite the reports on them?
    Tamarea and tanith like this.
  13. Tappin Augur

    Sigh. Why don’t we just be honest? DP wants the ability run scripts/automation or use low level workers to ban/suspend people without providing any customer service. Why? Because customer service cost money…
    Fenthen likes this.
  14. Lodestar Lorekeeper

    Tremendous callout Waring_McMarrin! This is why DB needs to clarify what's legal.
  15. Tarvas Augur

    Just a technical question. Is there something in the client that can detect when another program is reading the log file?
  16. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    I agree with the sentiment you're posting from, but there is a major flaw in your logic - and I am not defending cheaters and botters here - but whether a suspension or ban is a false positive is really beside the point in your argument. If an account is suspended or banned, they also lose forum privileges. So, in most cases, they would be forced to post as a new forum member.
  17. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Fenthen and Tarvas like this.
  18. Windance Augur

    I suspect that the "Anti-Cheat Improvements" involve scripted analysis of the player's actions/server logs and randomly suspending some percentage of those who trip whatever metrics they are using.

    Thus they can't really give a reason other than "cheating" because the customer service side doesn't really know why the script reported them as "cheating".
    Vumad and Fenthen like this.
  19. CatsPaws Devil's Advocate

    You would be shocked at what they can track. Had contact with a GM and he had a complete list of what we were talking about from when and where it was created to which servers it was on and whose accounts it went thru before it got to me.

    Don't sell them short. They are smarter than they let on. After all:

    We may collect certain information about your computer, such as the IP address, type of video card, size of hard drive, etc., and monitor the software and data on your computer, as reasonably necessary to assist us in optimizing the performance of our games and websites. We may also monitor the processes on your computer as reasonably necessary to detect unauthorized modifications to our game software and/or the use of software that enables or facilitates any kind of cheating.

    Best thing is just play right and have fun. No need for extra programs.
    Tarvas likes this.
  20. Schadenfreude Augur

    They are using Macaroni and choosing not to tell you. Sorry to break the bad news.
    Szilent and Velisaris_MS like this.
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